Paths in the kitchen garden

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Paths in the kitchen garden
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wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 15 9:13 pm Post subject:

My membrane lasted really well, it was the woodchip on top that was awful. I'm never having it again as a path (I'd still use it in a chicken run)

I loathe weeding paths. I don't mind weeding the actual vegetables, but not paths. I've been enviously looking at the crushed and compacted whatever-it-is that the national trust have on all their paths. I reckon with a small wooden edging to stop erosion and keep the soil from spilling on it that would work great (I'm also anti raised beds. I had some made out of the recommended old scaffolding, and they're hard to dig weeds out of and rot in a few years. I just want a bit of edging to keep the soil off the paths)

Minimal research suggests that I need to scrape out a trench, fill it with crushed whatsitcalled with proper ratios of small bits to big bits (or something) and bash it down with whacker plate.

I have access to a digger, so all I'd need to do is find out what the stuff is called, barrow it in and hire a whacker plate/person with whacker plate and never weed again. The only tricky bit might be getting a camber on it so it drains (and finding out what the wretched stuff is called. Why do I never know the right name for things?!! It makes things so much more difficult) but for even the biggest of kitchen gardens, it must be fairly cheap and effective?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 15 10:50 pm Post subject:
a good whacker operator will put a camber on it no prob. it aint a diy job even if you are used to groundworks etc ps most of em lip read so dont expect an answer unless they can see your face

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 15 11:12 pm Post subject:

this ?

if it is a bit tarry you can top out with a cleaner material such as 20mm to dust chalk,sandstone (or whatever the local geology provides)and whack that into the surface

if you have access to a digger with a front loader bucket it will be fairly easy to get it as a wagon load and move it about,if you need to shovel and barrow it you will get fit

if you dig deep enough and compact inwards from the edges you dont really need edge boards

if you know how long,how wide and how deep the supplier will know how much weight you need to allow for packing it in to the volume

bear in mind that the whacking will compact the soil as well so allow for that when calculating depths and amounts .

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15598

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 5:47 am Post subject:

Whatever you use, I would still put membrane under it. Dig out, put the membrane down, than put the top on. You can get various types of scalpings which are stones mixed with clay, or the road planings that Dpack mentioned. As you will only be using a wheelbarrow over them at worst you won't need to build up a base layer then a top layer. We have used road planings on an area where cars park, and it has quickly got covered in mud so doesn't show up as anything other than a hard mud surface. We used crushed concrete on another track that we use tractors over, and that has rutted a bit, but then we didn't do much preparation on the ground first.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 10:22 am Post subject:

Yes, scalpings appear to be the stuff I am on about. Thank you Hampshire County Council https://documents.hants.gov.uk/countryside/designstandards-pathsurfacing.pdf and Dpack (of course!) I hadn't thought of moving the stuff with the digger (although it wouldn't do me any harm to lose a few pounds!) it seems silly not to use it, as it's just sitting there. I will have to bake a pork pie for the operator! I don't suppose it would take long, though.

I think I will put a membrane down, although I suspect the compaction will pierce it. Anything to help with the bloody bindweed. The edging will just be to stop me spilling soil all over it when I dig.

Prices vary, but look to be around £50 a ton. I don't suppose I would need more than three or four even for my most ambitious kitchen garden, plus the hire for the plate and person to operate it. It seems reasonable. I'll go and find the 'kitchen garden' under the jungle and detritus later this week and give it a go. Thanks all.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 11:27 am Post subject:

if the digger driver can do a rough spread you will still get plenty of exercise with a barrow and shovel doing the fine adjustments before and during the whacking.

if you work out how much you need get an extra 15 % cos there will be bits were the soil compacts more than others and so will need a bit extra

if you put the to be moved by barrow amount on a couple of conveniently placed boards you will find it much easier to shovel from the edge of the heap than it is to try to shovel into a heap on soft ground.

if you haven't got one an all steel builders shovel will be a good investment and fill the barrow tyre with "slime" or similar,they always spring a leak at the wrong moments.good gloves are a must as blisters and cuts are no fun to work with.

the last one i did was a 5 x 10 m chalk and chert platform for a portacabin and although 20 tons looked a lot in a heap with a digger and a bit of hand finishing it was a lot easier than i expected.

crofter

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 2:39 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

Prices vary, but look to be around £50 a ton.

That seems expensive. I have just bought a lorry load @ 2 pounds per tonne, but maybe for smaller quantities you would expect to pay more. Get some more prices & try to get recycled product so you do not have to pay the aggregates levy.

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4590
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 2:40 pm Post subject:
IIRC Bob Flowerdew uses straw on his paths, then at the end of the season it goes on the compost heap and fresh stuff goes down.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 4:11 pm Post subject:
iirc the price depends if there are any road repairs being done locally when you need it.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 7:20 pm Post subject:

crofter wrote:

wellington womble wrote:

Prices vary, but look to be around £50 a ton.

It's all log in-for-prices, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is much cheaper, especially by bulk load. When I'm sorted, I look properly and be pleasantly surprised (especially if it's £2 a ton!)

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Tue Sep 01, 15 8:34 pm Post subject:

@ £2 a ton I guess Crofter lives next to a quarry or in the middle of nowhere and they happened to be doing the roads near him ?

£45-£50 is about right for a 1ton dumpy bag of 'MOT' (crushed granite) from builders merchants.
Few quid a ton cheaper if you get delivered loose.
Another few quid cheaper if you collect loose, but round these parts that's still £35-£40
And round these parts an £18ton load is still IRO £30ton

Recycled stuff £10-£25ton. Some places do 'clean' crushed concrete, but it's usually crushed demolition rubble and full of crap - instead of pulling weeds from your path you'll be picking out bits of glass, timber, plastic, metal etc

Scalpings vary depending on availability/being in right place at right time.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 15 6:57 am Post subject:
Different part`s of the country tend to have different names for many thing`s, In South Wales,Scalping`s is basically quarry waste,crushed to roughly 1 1/2 inch down,surface rock layer`s containing dirt/clay. Road repair product known as Road Planeings.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 15 6:58 am Post subject:
Different part`s of the country tend to have different names for many thing`s, In South Wales,Scalping`s is basically quarry waste,crushed to roughly 1 1/2 inch down,surface rock layer`s containing dirt/clay. Road repair product known as Road Planeings.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 15 8:26 am Post subject:
I think that's the stuff. 40mm is a bit over and inch and a half, with clay to stick it together (it's a bit like making pastry!)

crofter

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 15 6:08 pm Post subject:

onemanband wrote:

@ £2 a ton I guess Crofter lives next to a quarry or in the middle of nowhere and they happened to be doing the roads near him ?

It was a 20 tonne load of recycled scalpings, not too much dirt, & I should have said that delivery was not included,

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