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Securing half a garage
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Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33630
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 9:18 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Onemanband will know better, but I'm guessing it's only 7 foot high, or so. Light weight blocks, not supporting anything won't need footings, unless your concrete base is 5mm thick, surely?

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I would expect the garage slab to be 4 inches if not 6 inches thick - so I wouldn't worry about footings - that would be v expensive.
A 4inch medium density blockwall with restraint straps to rafters should be strong enough.
A metal cage made from angle iron and reinforcing mesh might work out a similar price. 12mm high tensile (the ribbed stuff) will require proper (2foot long) bolt croppers. A plywood sheet, even lightly fixed to mesh, will make it harder to access and cut through mesh.
A well constructed timber stud wall might also compare on price and strength. 4 x 2 studs with a layer of thin mesh fitted under plywood.

Block, metal or timber - there's merits to all of them and a combination will add security. What your reasonably priced tradesperson prefers working with, will affect the price and choice.

Wireless alarm ? Fairly cheap these days and easy to install. Not sure on distance sensors will work.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Personally I'd want to seal one side from the other, I wouldn't want petrol fumes etc in with the animals and not sure I'd want the extra dampness in with my tools and equipment.

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nick wrote:
Onemanband will know better, but I'm guessing it's only 7 foot high, or so. Light weight blocks, not supporting anything won't need footings, unless your concrete base is 5mm thick, surely?


Yep. The point loading of a car wheel will (probably) be more than the evenly distributed load of a 6 or 7 foot high wall.

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14772
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

If it has no footings, how does it have any lateral strength i.e. what's to stop it falling over sideways if lent on?

I'm not hugely concerned about damp or sealing. I take the tractor out about once a fortnight in the summer, so the engines don't really run for long periods in there, and not often. It's also pretty well ventilated. I don't expect the chickens or sheep will hang about in there while I'm starting it up either. I plan to replace the up and over door with a side by side, so it can be mostly closed in wet weather.

I've no idea how thick the slab might be. I've been saying garages because they have garage doors, but I don't know that they've ever had cars in. It was most likely built as animal housing, or the slaughterhouse, and I'm guessing has since been used as a stable. My house is the old butchers shop and there was a smokehouse in the garden until a few years ago. Goodness knows who put the slab down and what for. Since I've known it, it's simply been full of junk.

I'll see about getting some quotes. Thanks for all your help. If it's more than a grand or so, it would be cheaper to install a field shelter, so I might go down that route and keep the garages shut after all.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33630
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm thinking you're going to be pleasantly surprised.

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Lateral support will mainly be provided by restraint straps to roof and it being tied in at either end (various methods available).
Yes a wall can 'roll over' because of insufficient footings, but for your purposes, without any wind load or load other than it's self weight, the garage slab should be fine. If it looks solid and isn't breaking up, it will be fine.

Side by side doors can be made much securer than an up and over.

I reckon it's not beyond the realms of possibility to get a brand new set of doors fitted and the wall built for under a grand.
New doors 250, ironmongery 100, blocks 200
that's 550, leaving 450 for labour and that'll depend on who you know and how much you do yourself.

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14772
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My only experience of building is lego (this possibly shows...)

I'm surprised about the doors. I'd have thought the metal garage door would be more secure. I dislike them, though. They are a pain to open from down here and have mechanisms that go wrong. Even I can understand how hinges work. Also, the locks are not very good. I was vaguely thinking of putting those hinged bollards in front of them, but perhaps I won't bother.

Pleasantly surprised at cost will make a change. I have discovered that land sucks money out of you.

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

wellington womble wrote:
My only experience of building is lego (this possibly shows...)

..........I'd have thought the metal garage door would be more secure.


Lego is where I started.

Metal door v timber door for security could be debated, but I'd say timber as it's far easier to beef up security. With timber you can easily fit locks, hasp and staples, shoot bolts, hinge bolts (to counter hinge removal), alarm sensors etc etc Timber is also easier to repair if you do get visitors.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3963
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 17 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Without knowing said construction and size of garage except single block wall for half its length,tying in at either end depends on what the ends are built of,brick or block ,no problem,cut indents or use a profile,but personally I would build a pillar in the middle for stability.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32777
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 17 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

metal mesh/ ply the ceiling

reinforcing mesh and two sheets of ply sandwiched together and held to the existing timber work by strips of metal and lots of long coach screws is a nasty combo for anyone making a stealth entry from above

locks are only as good as the door and frame , don't skimp on extra metal for the frame and door, a few sections/plates and fixings can put hours on an entry

go big on fixings, chemical anchors are ace for fixing metal to concrete and always use lots of good quality fastenings

use a combination of "weak" materials to create a strong and difficult to deal with obstacle , if you want to get really nasty a middle layer of chicken wire and glass fibre in the ply and mesh sandwiches is rather fun and very good value for money

bells are good ( as are alarm mines )

any box can be opened but one can make it difficult, unpleasant, noisy and slow

there is "going equipped" but few would be equipped for a proper structure or even if they were they would be unlikely have the time to exploit their knowledge and considerable toolkit

NorthernMonkeyGirl



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4230
Location: Peeping over your shoulder
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 17 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Remind me not to try and break in to your place

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3963
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 17 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

You missed the claymores coming up the drive,lol.

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41658
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 17 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

And the punji sticks. Don't forget them.

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14772
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 17 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My sheep will be scattered over the field in bits!

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