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Bebo
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 6082
Location: East Sussex
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 Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 9:00 am Post subject: |
 
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| Treacodactyl wrote: |
| I'd want about 10 acres for firewood but also remember that can provide a fair bit of food and can be used to keep chickens, bees etc in. |
And if its fenced properly, pigs as well. Pigs love woodland, particularly if it has trees in it that things they like to eat drop off of (oak and beech for example). |
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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 19590
Location: In the pond with the frogs
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Bebo wrote: |
| Treacodactyl wrote: |
| I'd want about 10 acres for firewood but also remember that can provide a fair bit of food and can be used to keep chickens, bees etc in. |
And if its fenced properly, pigs as well. Pigs love woodland, particularly if it has trees in it that things they like to eat drop off of (oak and beech for example). |
Pigs are covered by the etc bit  although I expect you need to be careful they don't do too much damage. |
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Jam and Pickles
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 9:09 am Post subject: |
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It's starting to look like 7 acres is very limiting in options, which is what I suspected. |
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Nat S
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 3620
Location: York
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 10:27 am Post subject: |
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This is seriously not something you can do sums on.
You could have a million acres on good land with warm sun during the day and plenty of rain at night, no local competition and a local populace dying to buy your meat veg whatever...and still muck it up.
If anybody says 'oh you need X many acres' as a definitive answer...they're round the twist. |
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Blue Peter
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2175
Location: Milton Keynes
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Ixy wrote: |
This is seriously not something you can do sums on.
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Though, there are some standard amounts of land for standard "tasks" are there not? e.g. I think that space and water heating (and cooking?) in a well-insulated house requires something like 1- 2 ha of coppiced woodland; for a totally grass fed cow and calf (including over-wintering hay) you need about 4 acres(?) and so on,
Peter. |
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RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 5720
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Or keep the cow/calf in the barn & buy all the feed / forage in?
You could do 1,000's of pigs on 1 acre if they are inside. |
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Blue Peter
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2175
Location: Milton Keynes
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| RichardW wrote: |
Or keep the cow/calf in the barn & buy all the feed / forage in?
You could do 1,000's of pigs on 1 acre if they are inside. |
Obviously, but there are some numbers out there which can give you a guide, and which presumably be helpful to the OP-er,
Peter. |
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RGT
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:28 am Post subject: |
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An acre of stony sheepwalk or Spruce plantation isn't the same as an acre of prime black garden soil, obviously, as reflected in the relative prices. But you want as much land as your budget will support, trading off against other variables if neccessary - eg a nice modernised farmhouse is good, but tarting up buildings is relatively easy.
The enormous ethical problems of indoor pigs aside, it's a pretty capital intensive approach if done anything like properly. |
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RichardW
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 5720
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 09 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Oh yeh intensive will eat up the capital but should produce the profits as well.
As has been said you need to start at the end & work back.
Once you know how much you need to make then you can work out how to make it. Or you will be making lots of plans only top find that you are short of your needed funds.
You also need to decided in intensive, extensive or a mix.
The biggest factor is making sure you can sell what you need to at the price you need. To many fail to market properly so even if you get all the rest right you still fail. |
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Millymollymandy
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 157
Location: Brittany, France
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 09 6:35 am Post subject: |
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You need to take into account the lack of rain in many parts of France during the summer so you'd probably need more land for whatever you want to do than you would in a rainy part of the UK. I was told by a horsey person that the rule of thumb for horses (per horse) is one acre in the UK but one hectare (about 2.5 acres) in France. Yes I know you didn't mention horses but I can't quote anything about other grazing animals. Obviously chooks won't need any more space. 
Good luck anyway, or rather bonne chance! |
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Green Rosie
Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 4165
Location: Calvados, France
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 09 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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A bit off topic I know but I'll echo what Boisdevie says about finding work. Many people come over to Fracne and say they'll do anything for work such as shelf stacking BUT it really is hard to find work in France unless you speak the lingo or intend to work purely for the English community in your area. And whilst land is cheap in France, it is not a cheap country to live in. |
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Nat S
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 3620
Location: York
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 09 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Blue Peter wrote: |
| Ixy wrote: |
This is seriously not something you can do sums on.
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Though, there are some standard amounts of land for standard "tasks" are there not? e.g. I think that space and water heating (and cooking?) in a well-insulated house requires something like 1- 2 ha of coppiced woodland; for a totally grass fed cow and calf (including over-wintering hay) you need about 4 acres(?) and so on,
Peter. |
nope - what grass have you got? how well's it been cared for etc etc etc - 4 acres of mountainside won't produce enough whereas 2 acres of lush well kept vaired lowland grass might do it. Also - what cow? Even within a breed individuals will eat more or less than they 'should'. |
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Pel
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 1045
Location: Nr Aberaeron, Ceredigion
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 09 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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There are ball mark/point figures, but like ixy said it can all change dependant on what sort of land you have, breed and climate.
So lets say you have flat Perenial ryegrass and clover mix, perhaps with a few other varities thrown in, its well draining, but does hold in a little moisture, and you had the 'perfect' weather. Then i'd reckon you could go off the ball mark figures.
Trying to think back to my HND but the figures went something like this (per year):
1 x black and white high yielding dairy cow 2.5 acres
1 beef cow like a hereford 1 acre
weaned calf 0.75 acres.
1 lamb 0.10 acre
(i cant remember ewes)
pigs (sows) well rotationaly 10 on an acre, otherwise left on 1 acre for a year is 5-6.
Chickens free range last time i read was 1,000 birds to an acre.
I cant remember any other figures.
Though the chickens and pigs you would have to feed concentrates or grind your own feed as the land wouldnt have what they need, and you'd probably still need to give a little cake to the B&W cow even with its own 2.5 acres of grass.
In my head 7 acres wouldnt be enough, maybe nearer 30+ or so if you had said land above, but there are too many factors just to give a straight forward answer. I have to agree working backwards is best, or just a lot planning or buy something as big as you can finiacially afford (including setup up costs) and then work off that and just make do as best you can with as little or as much as you can afford.
Visit the area where you want to live many times, talk to the locals see what niche you can fit into or see if you have to go down the 'big boys' route to make it finacially viable for you both to live off it. Maybe you could breed pedigrees but if crosses are selling better then perhaps thats the way to go. Also look at the slaughter houses maybe that will swing what way to go, if you need to slaughter chickens and thats 50miles you either need a lot of chickens to make the trip worth while or thing of alternatives. |
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Jam and Pickles
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 09 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Nice one, thanks Pel - I can start to visualise things a lot more now!
Cheers
Pickles |
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paulandpatinmanche
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 09 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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France is not a low tax country either, cotisations are high and there are minimum amounts to pay in all sectors. You only get 70% of your healthcare costs paid assuming you are 'in the system', which you will need to be if you are selling at markets etc. Best to work on the principle that you will not be able to get an employed job unless your french is fluent - supermarket checkout ladies with degrees are not uncommon. The autoentrepreneur system might be of use for some self employed ventures. There is a lot of information on the Anglo info forums http://angloinfo.com .
Gites and accomodation are not exactly undersubscribed activities either, we work for a franchise that provides property management services www.lesbonsvoisins.com (hope I'm allowed to put that), so take with a large pinch of salt any info given by estate agents as to the number of weeks lettings you might get from gites etc.
Haven't a clue as to the area of land you might need to be self sufficient though, except that a friend's dad saw the demise of the '100 acre farmer' coming in the UK and retired before he was 60. That was the best part of 40 years ago.
Having said all that we would not be too keen on returning to the UK. |
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