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marigold
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 7690
Location: West Sussex
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 Posted: Sat Nov 07, 09 9:07 am Post subject: |
 
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| orangepippin wrote: |
IMHO all the best programmers are self-taught, just like the best guitarists. I don't think it's something you learn by going on a course. |
And so are the worst... 
A course is a quick intro to the basics and, if well-taught, can fast-track you to producing useful work and give you confidence, but like most skills you get better at programming with practise. |
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JohnB
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Here today, somewhere else tomorrow, wherever my van takes me!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 09 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Emyr wrote: |
| Swapping a roll-your-own php website for Drupal or Joomla would probably make sense though. |
No it wouldn't. I wasted days messing around with various CMSs. They are so slow that it can be like watching paint dry when you're working on a dodgy 30-40kbps mobile internet connection. I'd have gone mad and given up on the whole idea by now, if I hadn't given up and written it myself. I also couldn't find one with the facilities I need for the member's area. There would have been so many compromises that it would have been unworkable. |
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orangepippin
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 09 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| JohnB wrote: |
| Emyr wrote: |
| Swapping a roll-your-own php website for Drupal or Joomla would probably make sense though. |
No it wouldn't. I wasted days messing around with various CMSs. They are so slow that it can be like watching paint dry when you're working on a dodgy 30-40kbps mobile internet connection. I'd have gone mad and given up on the whole idea by now, if I hadn't given up and written it myself. I also couldn't find one with the facilities I need for the member's area. There would have been so many compromises that it would have been unworkable. |
I agree. I'm not a great fan of package solutions - they certainly have their place, but they can be too big, clunky, unfocussed etc. It's often better and quicker to roll your own. |
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orangepippin
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: East Yorkshire
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 09 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| marigold wrote: |
| orangepippin wrote: |
IMHO all the best programmers are self-taught, just like the best guitarists. I don't think it's something you learn by going on a course. |
And so are the worst...
A course is a quick intro to the basics and, if well-taught, can fast-track you to producing useful work and give you confidence, but like most skills you get better at programming with practise. |
Yes, good point. I didn't really mean "don't go on courses" (I've been on, and taught a few myself) but I do think that programming is primarily a self-taught thing, augumented by books, courses, tutorials and so on. The best programmers I have worked with all started out programming first, then went on the course, if you see what I mean. |
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vegplot
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 9614
Location: North West Wales
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 09 11:54 am Post subject: |
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When we devised our own CMS (now our standard method of publishing and managing web sites) we did on the premise that we have full control over the development cycle rather than being reliant on propriety or open source solutions.
We need bilingual capability and be able to run from XML bases datasources and there wasn't a product in the market place which offered that capability. We also faced a problem with synchronising our development cycle with new vendor releases which often meant a major re-write of our code to accommodate changes made.
Rolling your own is an option worth exploring and off the shelf CMS's have their place if you're willing to accept their limitations and put up with unwanted features. |
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Fee
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 12829
Location: Surrey Heath
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 09 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| orangepippin wrote: |
| JohnB wrote: |
I'm just a rubbish self taught programmer who doesn't know a better way of doing it . |
IMHO all the best programmers are self-taught, just like the best guitarists. I don't think it's something you learn by going on a course. |
IMHO the worst programmers are self-taught. |
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Fee
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 12829
Location: Surrey Heath
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 09 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Cor, lots of posts while I was replying That'll teach me to leave a window open mid-post  |
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OtleyLad
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 237
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 09 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Even though I am a programmer (COmputer Science degree no less) I know that the most important thing is not the technical wizardry used to build the site (assuming it basically looks and functions ok). As far as your potential customers are concerned, they don't give a hoot whether you used javascript/php/spaghetti/whatever to put your site together.
The key issue is how many people (who are likely to want to buy what you are selling) you can get to come and see what you have to offer!
The key is advertising - and you can spend a fortune on it and get no-where. But you need your site to get noticed and talked about in the right 'communities'.
If you can get that right you will get plenty of sales - but otherwise your baby will sit in a corner unvisited and unloved forever... |
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Fee
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 12829
Location: Surrey Heath
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 09 10:48 am Post subject: |
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I don't care if my customer cares if a site is correctly formed or not, how are they to know? I care and so should anyone else who builds websites. |
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vegplot
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 9614
Location: North West Wales
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 09 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Fee wrote: |
| I don't care if my customer cares if a site is correctly formed or not, how are they to know? I care and so should anyone else who builds websites. |
Indeed and sometimes it is critical to use correctly formatted compliant code especially when catering for those with visual disabilities.
Advertising isn't the key, it's an important element but unless you can convert site visitors to customers then advertising is in part wasted. What is key is getting your message across and making visitors want to use the site. One in five web site visitors find web sites difficult to use and a 1/3rd believe it's rare to find a site that's really well designed and easy to use. Overcome those obstructions and you'll have a web site that is working for you rather than discouraging visitors.[/i] |
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davidgeary
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Location: south Oxfordshire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 09 1:04 pm Post subject: Oak Barrels |
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Thanks Emyr I'll check it out! |
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