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colour it green
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 2953
Location: Devon, uk
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 Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 12:04 pm Post subject: |
 
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we cant depend on PT alone at all. Things are better now we upsized to a village house, when we lived in the sticks, we had to walk a couple of miles to the nearest bus stop, and it only went once a week (back too if you were lucky)
Himself works further up on Dartmoor, no bus from here to there. however he arraanged to work from home some days a week, so that saves (us and the environment).
The hardest journey is to hospital appointments - which are still pretty frequent in my son's lfie - we would have to take 3 buses to get there, and an awful lot of time. Without a car, we would prolly take a taxi.
The cost of buses is off-putting. it costs us over 10 quid to get me and my son into the nearest town and back. (im applying for a bus pass for him so that should help), but even allowing for tax and insurance, fuel and parkign fees, i think it is cheaper to go by car. |
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sean
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28908
Location: North Devon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't it gil who can have either half an hour or three days in town if she uses public transport? |
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colour it green
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 2953
Location: Devon, uk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick wrote: |
| Or 10, if you count the paranoid schizophrenic that seems to be on every bus. |
I seem to attract the attention of 'the lonely pensioner' who singles me and my son out to talk to. |
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baldybloke
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Wiltshire
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Around these here parts there was a local initiative called the Wigglybus. You rang in to arrange to be picked up, similar to a taxi. The bus then diverted from its route and picked you up. The scheme was really successful. for several years. Then for some reason the local authority took over the scheme and you can guess the rest. |
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mochyn
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 13973
Location: mid-Wales
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| sean wrote: |
| Isn't it gil who can have either half an hour or three days in town if she uses public transport? |
I can hava a couple of hours or a week... |
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gz
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 1422
Location: S.E. Wales
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ixy wrote: |
| baldybloke wrote: |
| I agree with Ixy and that we should all be driving around in a more efficient version of the 2CV. A car with bolt on panels that is infinitely rebuildable. |
oo yes that'd be great, like giant mechano! |
or a series 1 or 2 Landrover  |
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Gervase
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 7003
Location: Ceredigion, West Wales
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 09 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Series IIa? If anyone wants one, there's one in the yard needing some TLC (it's tax exempt and has a rebuilt petrol engine) and I'm highly suggestible.... |
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john of wessex
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 312
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 09 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Have a look at 'Renewable energy without the hot air' - it's on the web.
It quotes a number of figures for 'all in' such as Croydon Tramlink & London Buses which include empty running, depots etc. They still come out much better than the car.
Of course for all methods of transport speed is what wacks up the CO2 emissions - for example on the GWR services to Bristol & the West of England, in the late 70's when BR replaced 2700hp Class 50's that could run at 100mph with 2x2250hp Power Cars on the 125 MPH HST.
On a personal note I now go to work by bus.
If I took the car - a 60mpg petrol engined one, the round trip would burn up about 0.5 gallons of fuel. Assuming the bus does 8mpg which I tink is quite conservative on a country run, so long as at least 8 passengers are abouard - they usualy are then the MPG/passenger is greater than my car.
Secondly, as the bus would run anyway, if I took the car, my CO2 emissions might be fractionally less, but the total CO2 emissions would be greater as the bus would be still running |
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Mutton
Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 09 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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When I lived in London few people I knew owned a car because public transport was so comprehensive.
When teenager in rural area there was a great private bus that ran three days a week to go shopping in the city 13 miles away. The corporation bus route was along the coast and took ages, but the private bus went inland through all the small villages, then parked up in the city for three hours. You did your shopping, got back to the coach - and from about half an hour before it was due to leave the driver would have the doors open so you could get on with your bags. Then on the way home as he was coming up to each turning to a little village he'd call out "anyone here from X" if no one answered he wouldn't bother to go down there. Bit hard if you wanted a lift from X to Y but everyone who knew that bus, knew his habits. It ran at least half full, every trip I was on it, often more. That was a bus route set up to run for the people, not expecting people to adapt to some arcane bus timetable.
Buses could also do with a lot more bike space - maybe even a trailer on a small bus. So you could cycle to the stop, chain your bike up on a rack on the trailer, then cycle on at the other end. |
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cab
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 30158
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 09 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| john of wessex wrote: |
Secondly, as the bus would run anyway, if I took the car, my CO2 emissions might be fractionally less, but the total CO2 emissions would be greater as the bus would be still running |
The often forgotten fact that some forms of public transport are infrastructural. When services to outlying areas are axed because they don't make enough money, and when comparisons between car and bus in terms of energy efficiency are made, this simple fact is often overlooked. |
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cab
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 30158
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 09 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Mutton wrote: |
Buses could also do with a lot more bike space - maybe even a trailer on a small bus. So you could cycle to the stop, chain your bike up on a rack on the trailer, then cycle on at the other end. |
The trend has in fact been the opposite to this. Train companies have made it progressively harder to take a bike with you (go on, try booking a bike on a train journey with two changes and three different companies, each with different policies on bike carriage, each with different rules on how and where the bike should be stowed... and I'll bet that two times out of three you end up with at least one train guard who gives you a hard time even if you do jump through all the hoops).
Here in Cambs we once had a railway route that went to Huntingdon and St. Ives. Its been rebuilt... as an over-cost, late to start 'guided busroute'. And, just like a train, it doesn't necessarily take you where you need to be, and just like a bus it has no space for luggage much bigger than a briefcase. Backwards thinking. |
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cab
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 30158
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 09 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Cars are greener than buses |
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| bagpuss wrote: |
A thought provoking opinion piece though |
Kind of. The whole 'ethical man' thing has at times been interesting in that regard, but at other times rather irritating too. Here its a bit of both.
A recent (07?) report from the RAC suggested that the average daily commute in the UK is just shy of 9 miles, and that over 70% of people get there by car. However you look at that, it means traffic congestion, and you need to factor in the impact of that on public transport. Simply, 10 people on a bus take up maybe the same amount of road space as 2 people in their own cars. Start to look at the reduction in traffic congestion gained by greater reliance on PT and the equation starts to swing more and more in favour of PT.
But I think even THAT misses the point. 9 miles? An average? So, that means that quite a lot of people are driving shorter distances? Get bikes. |
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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 19590
Location: In the pond with the frogs
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 09 11:21 am Post subject: |
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A lot obviously depends on where you are so it would be nice to have unbiased facts available. I noticed last week when I took the dog for a walk in the middle of morning rush hour both the buses I saw were completely empty and that's in a suburban environment when you'd expect them to be used most. The comparisons are complicated further by the fact that bus routes aren't often the shortest, so it might take be 9 miles by car but 15 by bus. I also wonder if people happily travel further if the use public transport rather than a car.
I would have considered cycling in a previous job but there were no showers. Even bikes weren't the greenest option, I could have easily done the job from home but companies still aren't keen on allowing staff to do that.
As ever, there's no right answer. |
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cab
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 30158
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 09 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Treacodactyl wrote: |
| A lot obviously depends on where you are so it would be nice to have unbiased facts available. I noticed last week when I took the dog for a walk in the middle of morning rush hour both the buses I saw were completely empty and that's in a suburban environment when you'd expect them to be used most. The comparisons are complicated further by the fact that bus routes aren't often the shortest, so it might take be 9 miles by car but 15 by bus. I also wonder if people happily travel further if the use public transport rather than a car. |
I shouldn't have thought that it matters travelling further by bus thats going that way anyway, at least in terms of emissions. |
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Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 19590
Location: In the pond with the frogs
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 09 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| cab wrote: |
| I shouldn't have thought that it matters travelling further by bus thats going that way anyway, at least in terms of emissions. |
I think that's a common mistake. Buses don't always run, the more people who use them the more there'll be to some extent. |
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