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paul1963
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 1786
Location: Somewhere between Osh Kosh and nowhere
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 Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 5:01 pm Post subject: |
 
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| baldybloke wrote: |
Actually the quality of some of the produce in my local Lidl's is pretty good, and should give reasonable service. It also seems to be made mainly in Europe rather than the far east.
I must admit to not being totally virtuous myself and have been known to impulse buy. The knack is not to make a habit of it.
I think we need to take individual responsibility for the kind of future we want, rather than wait for someone to make the decision for us. It is far better to willing embrace something rather than begrudgingly being forced into something. The problem then is to get 7 billion other people to do the same. |
That's my point Paul, we are none of us as virtuous as we make ourselves out to be (and you are well aware of my failings in this respect). At the risk of coming over all Ghandi-esque we need to show an example by our actions and hopefully others will follow  |
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baldybloke
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 1113
Location: Wiltshire
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose the old addage of "It is better to try and fail than not to try at all" applies here. The chance of saving the planet for future generations is becoming incrediably slim.
We are certainly supping the dregs at the Last Chance Saloon. |
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oldish chris
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 2857
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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We've been through this before. The planet will continue for a few more billion years, as will the living stuff on it.
However, our consumerist economic system is doomed. What is unknown is what will bring it to an end. It may well be that climate change does it. The science indicates that the time lag will mean that global warming will continue for another 3,000 years, then over the next 10,000 it will return to something like now.
I'm a climate pessimist - there will be inadequate responses to the challenge until too late. I have great faith in human adaptability, the 100s of millions that survive "TEOTWAWKI" will create a new civilisation. The big argument will be about global cooling, the inhabitants of the Antarctic Republic will be against it.
Those just being born about now are going to have an interesting life. |
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marigold
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12137
Location: West Sussex
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| oldish chris wrote: |
Those just being born about now are going to have an interesting life. |
IMO we don't really need to be concerned while people are still optimistic enough to have children. If it gets to a stage where things are so grim that people actually override their desire to breed and I'm still alive, THEN I'll worry. In the meantime, I do my best to live reasonably lightly, be as cheerful as possible and observe the world with interest. |
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paul1963
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 1786
Location: Somewhere between Osh Kosh and nowhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 12 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| baldybloke wrote: |
I suppose the old addage of "It is better to try and fail than not to try at all" applies here. The chance of saving the planet for future generations is becoming incrediably slim.
We are certainly supping the dregs at the Last Chance Saloon. |
Aye my friend, you're not wrong there. Sad isn't it  |
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mochyn
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 23527
Location: mid-Wales
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 12 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| paul1963 wrote: |
| baldybloke wrote: |
I suppose the old addage of "It is better to try and fail than not to try at all" applies here. The chance of saving the planet for future generations is becoming incrediably slim.
We are certainly supping the dregs at the Last Chance Saloon. |
Aye my friend, you're not wrong there. Sad isn't it |
yup. |
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baldybloke
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 1113
Location: Wiltshire
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 12 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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For those interested in future possibilities, might I suggest having a look at the following:
www.postcarbon.org
Also check out Richard Heinberg on Youtube. |
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paul1963
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 1786
Location: Somewhere between Osh Kosh and nowhere
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 12 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| oldish chris wrote: |
We've been through this before. The planet will continue for a few more billion years, as will the living stuff on it.
However, our consumerist economic system is doomed. What is unknown is what will bring it to an end. It may well be that climate change does it. The science indicates that the time lag will mean that global warming will continue for another 3,000 years, then over the next 10,000 it will return to something like now.
I'm a climate pessimist - there will be inadequate responses to the challenge until too late. I have great faith in human adaptability, the 100s of millions that survive "TEOTWAWKI" will create a new civilisation. The big argument will be about global cooling, the inhabitants of the Antarctic Republic will be against it.
Those just being born about now are going to have an interesting life. |
Well Chris, you can be as pessimistic as you like, but from the time I've spent working in a wildlife trust and from time at university I can tell you that there is a distinct shift in flora and fauna, which is scientifically indicative of climate change. The jury is still partially out on the fundamental causes (is it the tail end of the last ice age/man made/enhanced by man) but it is happening. |
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oldish chris
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 2857
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 12 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Like many contributors to this forum, I lead modest life, consuming a bit less than average for the UK. I realise that to adapt to a sustainable lifestyle I will need to consume noticeable less. But that is not the problem.
The fundamental problem is that we need a new economic paradigm to manage the economic contraction that will go with everyone (in the developed world) consuming less. Actually, we don't even have a working economic paradigm for a growth based capitalist system - but that's another matter. |
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paul1963
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 1786
Location: Somewhere between Osh Kosh and nowhere
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 12 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| oldish chris wrote: |
Like many contributors to this forum, I lead modest life, consuming a bit less than average for the UK. I realise that to adapt to a sustainable lifestyle I will need to consume noticeable less. But that is not the problem.
The fundamental problem is that we need a new economic paradigm to manage the economic contraction that will go with everyone (in the developed world) consuming less. Actually, we don't even have a working economic paradigm for a growth based capitalist system - but that's another matter. |
I couldn't agree more. The human race is hellbent on stripping every last resource. Makes your heart bleed. The fundamental problem as I see it, is that those who hold power have gained their position largely through the current capitalist system and will not cede power to anyone else no matter how well thought out their remedy may be.
Change from the bottom up is the only chance...... |
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oldish chris
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 2857
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 12 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| paul1963 wrote: |
| Change from the bottom up is the only chance...... |
you blaming it all on my old underpants? |
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paul1963
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 1786
Location: Somewhere between Osh Kosh and nowhere
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 12 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| oldish chris wrote: |
| paul1963 wrote: |
| Change from the bottom up is the only chance...... |
you blaming it all on my old underpants? |
And hence climate change is solved in an instant  |
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baldybloke
Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 1113
Location: Wiltshire
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 12 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Or it's on the skids!!
Interesting to note that according to an expert on BBC Breakfast today, the heavy rain that we have been experiencing is down to a shift in the gulf stream. Could this become the norm for the future and is it down to climate change? |
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oldish chris
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 2857
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 12 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| baldybloke wrote: |
Or it's on the skids!!
Interesting to note that according to an expert on BBC Breakfast today, the heavy rain that we have been experiencing is down to a shift in the gulf stream. Could this become the norm for the future and is it down to climate change? |
On the front of the latest New Scientist magazine is the headline "Is global warming driving our weather wild?". Four pages of data analysis and discussion ends with
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| "We are seeing these extremes after only 0.8 degrees of global warming. If we do nothing and let the climate warm by 5 of 6 degrees, then we will see a very different planet." |
- Stefan Rahmstorf of the Potsdam Institute. |
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paul1963
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 1786
Location: Somewhere between Osh Kosh and nowhere
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 12 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| oldish chris wrote: |
| baldybloke wrote: |
Or it's on the skids!!
Interesting to note that according to an expert on BBC Breakfast today, the heavy rain that we have been experiencing is down to a shift in the gulf stream. Could this become the norm for the future and is it down to climate change? |
On the front of the latest New Scientist magazine is the headline "Is global warming driving our weather wild?". Four pages of data analysis and discussion ends with
| Quote: |
| "We are seeing these extremes after only 0.8 degrees of global warming. If we do nothing and let the climate warm by 5 of 6 degrees, then we will see a very different planet." |
- Stefan Rahmstorf of the Potsdam Institute. |
Sensationalist headlines. What we are seeing is the jetstream (not gulf stream - that is in the sea) brought lower over the country at present. Same thing in 2007. Normally it passes the western isels and on up into the North Sea. The low pressure systems in the Bay of Biscay have brought it south. It's not unusual. Historically (before rainfall records) the Royal Navy kept good measurements of winds and pressure systems (essential for a sail powered navy) and there are very good records of this happening periodically.
One of the climate change exponents' theories is that this will become more frequent as a rise in sea temperatures will permanently bring the jetstream down to our latitudes. Sadly records have not been kept long enough for that to be proven, but I suspect they may be right |
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