Beef and Expats

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Beef and Expats

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thos

Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1139
Location: Jauche, Duchy of Brabant (Bourgogne-ci) and Charolles, Duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne-ça)

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 7:34 am Post subject: Beef and Expats

We have had terrible problems getting hold of decent meat. I tried a new butchers, who had what looked to be a nice shop and bought a joint of beef for roasting. It was all lean, with no fat at all.

The butcher enthused about it and told us to roast at 220 for half an hour, covered. We did so, covered in foil.

The outside was nice, but the inside definitely looked raw and was still bloody, so Terry and the children had very little and most of it was left over.

The next day (Sunday) I cooked slices on the stone. It tasted fantastic. However, if you will forgive me, my posterior 'dribbled' and I soiled the bed. I did not have any stomach cramps and did not feel sick, so it did not seem to be any 'normal' food poisoning. The rest of the family were OK and the meat was the only thing that I had that the rest of the family didn't.

I do not want to give up my search for good meat, so does anyone have any suggestions for cooking foreign cuts - British recipes do not seem to work because of the absence of fat and the meat seems to go straight from raw to burnt. Does my problem indicate that the meat was unsafe or was it my cooking?

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Beef and Expats
Thos, it's extraordinarily hard to diagnose what causes something like that, but we can make some deductions that might help determine whether the meat was the likely culprit. May I ask, how long after eating the meat for the first time did this occur?

thos

Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1139
Location: Jauche, Duchy of Brabant (Bourgogne-ci) and Charolles, Duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne-ça)

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Beef and Expats

cab wrote:

Thos, it's extraordinarily hard to diagnose what causes something like that, but we can make some deductions that might help determine whether the meat was the likely culprit. May I ask, how long after eating the meat for the first time did this occur?

The first meal (joint) was 1700 Saturday, the second (stone) was 1700 Sunday, and my first 'problem' was 2300 Sunday. It was only after cooking on the stone that I had the problem, and I probably cross-contaminated from the uncooked to cooked meat as I used the same utensils throughout.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 11:01 am Post subject:

That's quite a short time for a roast (unless it was a fillet, I don't think I'd roast anything for as short a time as that, and we have our beef very rare - tend to roast big joints though)

Did you rest it? This makes quite a differnce to the texture of roast meats, and also it continues to cook, so its more evenly cooked throughout, and you might get less of the burning problem.

As for the food poisoning - Sunday night would be my guess - I've wondered about utensils - do they get hot enough not to be a risk.

Cab'll know!

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 11:26 am Post subject:

8 hours... Slow for a toxin. Sounds bacterial, either a toxin or a mild case of bacterial food poisoning. So yes, you're most likely correct that you picked up some contamination from the raw meat. I'd have thought that what has happened here is that the joint was mildly contaminated with something like Campylobacter, and that the contamination got onto your portion either between cookings (if it's a toxin, re-cooking won't remove it) or on the second cooked portion after cooking (handling that and the uncooked or semi-cooked joint).

Really, with a big joint of meat, you can treat the middle of it as sterile until you have cooked it, then if you're going to re-cook it you ought to be very sure of handling and thorough cooking. I know, that's counte intuitive, but it's a good way of preventing these little episodes

The most common source for this kind of infection isn't the food itself, it's the cloth used to wipe the surface down before you cook; either you pick bacteria up on your hands that way or spread them where you're about to put the food. Food poisoning is very, very often nothing to do with the food itself.

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 11:40 am Post subject:

Commiserations about your affliction, hope you are feeling OK now.

As for the cooking methods, in principle your butcher's advice should have been OK. I have cooked several largish venison joints which are similarly devoid of fat - either external or marbling. I find that the "blast it at a high heat to start, and then turn down for the rest of the cooking" method works very well. Provided, of course, that you rest it well as WW said - with a decent sized venison joint, 20 minutes to half an hour wouldn't be too long. It is the resting phase that transforms the middle from raw and bloody to pink and cooked.

Alternatively you could consider barding the joint - threading strips of back fat through the meat - and then cooking it in the foil as you did. That way you could happily cook it for longer without losing moisture.

thos

Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1139
Location: Jauche, Duchy of Brabant (Bourgogne-ci) and Charolles, Duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne-ça)

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 1:04 pm Post subject:

Thanks for your quick responses.

We did rest the meat, sufficient for my portion to be nearly cold by the time it was on my plate. However, I think Terry was a bit too quick to slice into it and pronounce it raw. Perhaps she should have kept her hands off it for longer.

The utensils did not get hot at all. The stone is simply a flat stone with a grill element underneath so the stone gets very hot. Thin slices of meat or whatever are then cooked on the stone. When the meat is turned over the utensils touch both sides and I mixed up the knife and fork from the meat plate with the knife and fork on my main plate which held my salad.

I really don't now which it is worse to blame, my kitchen or the butcher. From what cab says, I can try the butcher again. Mind you, being a ward sister, Terry is paranoid about kitchen hygeine.

Because we were trying to follow the butcher's advice, we did not give the joint a blast at high temperature first. Some of our half hour was therefore spent warming up the joint and tin to 220.

In retrospect, I think what we did wrong was:
1. Not give the joint a blast at high heat first.
2. Not resting the joint long enough before cutting it
3. Somhow infecting it with Campylobacter or similar after carving.
4. Getting the infection from the semi-cooked meat to my mouth via my eating utensils.

I think we will try the butcher again. I've got my eye on the 'Porc de Piétrain' since Piétrain is about 5km from my house.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 05 4:11 pm Post subject:
I would give them another go. It's shockingly easy to get a dodgy tummy from kitchen hygeiene, even you are careful, especially where salads and bbq type things are concerned If porc is pork, then you'll be cooking it through, so it won't be a problem! PS the untensil comment was general, rather than at you! I'm sure its true for all barbeque type methods!

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