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Give young land to build their own homes
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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 13 9:47 pm    Post subject: Give young land to build their own homes Reply with quote
    

Give young land to build their own homes, says planning minister

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15385
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 13 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Seems like a basically good idea, but I'm sure the government will find a way to turn it over and make it into a bad one...

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 13 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

a Tory realises that there is a problem! that's the first step. However, isn't Nick Boles on the extreme left of the party (i.e. almost normal) and will be treated as seriously as say, Tony Benn?

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 12058

PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 13 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The land is of course an expensive part of the price of a house, but wouldn't it be far better to ensure that all future development was of 'affordable' or rent/sale places so that young people could get on the property ladder if they want to? We keep getting 'executive' or 'stunning' developments round here, very few of which are affordable by youngsters.

Perhaps someone who has had to take out a student loan can tell me. If you go for a mortgage, is the student loan taken into account, giving you less chance of the mortgage?

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 13 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mistress Rose wrote:
The land is of course an expensive part of the price of a house, but wouldn't it be far better to ensure that all future development was of 'affordable' or rent/sale places so that young people could get on the property ladder if they want to? We keep getting 'executive' or 'stunning' developments round here, very few of which are affordable by youngsters.

Perhaps someone who has had to take out a student loan can tell me. If you go for a mortgage, is the student loan taken into account, giving you less chance of the mortgage?


What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart... I think giving away land is the wrong way to go about it, but at least the issue is being raised, rather than ignored as it has been for some time now.

We've had some 'affordable' homes built a couple of villages away - they look like council houses, only smaller, and I'll be interested to see whether they turn out to be in any way 'affordable'. Some tweaking of the planning system would be a better way to make self-building more affordable, but there's so much opposition that I don't see it being done in the short term.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34274
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 13 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The latest ones, no, because you just pay them back as tax when you're earning enough. Other type, yes, they count as part of your debt, afaik.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 13 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Worth remembering, with a typical speculative urban "new build" the breakdown of the asking price is 30% cost of land, 30% cost of construction, 30% profit.

If a "not for profit" organisation could build on land that was not designated "development land" then a house could built at around half the normal price.

As we saw with the "right to buy" legislation, after a few years, the property is sold on to a "buy to let" investor, who then charges the maximum rent that the market allows, which in turn means that the benefits bill goes sky high.

Therefore such a house would have to have loads of conditions attached to the sale, similar to houses built for agricultural workers.

Personally, I'd re-invent council housing.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15385
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 13 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Rob R wrote:
What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart...

What is the basis of that assertion?
I've done some building work, and none of it is difficult. The skill of a builder is in knowing how many corners you can cut, and how much of a slap-dash job you can get away with doing.
I mean no disrespect to builders there: there is nothing wrong with cutting corners if it provides an acceptable short-cut. A builder knows if the short-cut is acceptable where a self-builder may not, and the short cuts may make the difference between profit and loss, which isn't a self-builder's primary concern.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 13 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hairyloon wrote:
Rob R wrote:
What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart...

What is the basis of that assertion?
I've done some building work, and none of it is difficult. The skill of a builder is in knowing how many corners you can cut, and how much of a slap-dash job you can get away with doing.
I mean no disrespect to builders there: there is nothing wrong with cutting corners if it provides an acceptable short-cut. A builder knows if the short-cut is acceptable where a self-builder may not, and the short cuts may make the difference between profit and loss, which isn't a self-builder's primary concern.


Nat was once a building manager for some new build appartments, and then it came up again on George Clark's Great British Property Scandal programme.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15385
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 13 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Rob R wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
Rob R wrote:
What's more, a couple of years after being built they start falling apart...

What is the basis of that assertion?
I've done some building work, and none of it is difficult. The skill of a builder is in knowing how many corners you can cut, and how much of a slap-dash job you can get away with doing.
I mean no disrespect to builders there: there is nothing wrong with cutting corners if it provides an acceptable short-cut. A builder knows if the short-cut is acceptable where a self-builder may not, and the short cuts may make the difference between profit and loss, which isn't a self-builder's primary concern.


Nat was once a building manager for some new build appartments, and then it came up again on George Clark's Great British Property Scandal programme.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your point: I thought you meant the self-built houses would fall down, not the "professionally" (ahem) built affordable ones...

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 13 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I've seen two, maybe three, television programmes which featured "self-build" projects. Apart from the costs (low) and the architecture (interesting) was the effect it had on the builders both individually (made then more skillful and self-confident) and collectively ( real sense of community).

I'm in favour.

But when it comes to housing costs and shortages there are a few elephants in the room: one is the bias of money lenders towards buy-to-let landlords and the favourable tax regime of unearned income versus wages, the other is the under-occupation of many houses occupied by wrinklies (such as me).

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 12058

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 13 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

There is always the under occupation question, but in some areas the elephant is the number of people who have a 'country cottage' for use at weekends and holidays. We didn't realise how many there were round here until a sudden snow fall left them stuck in their holiday homes after Christmas a few years ago. They all wanted a log delivery, but we were unable to oblige. The same snow that was keeping them in was keeping us out of their village, and there is a lovely steep hill with lots of bends on the way.

The effect on some people of self build can be bad for their health and their marriage if they push it too hard. A friends father apparently aged 10 years as he was the supervisor of a self build group.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34274
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 13 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

oldish chris wrote:
: one is the bias of money lenders towards buy-to-let landlords and the favourable tax regime of unearned income versus wages, the other is the under-occupation of many houses occupied by wrinklies (such as me).




What's the bias? You pay a higher interest rate for a btl mortgage, and don't you pay the same tax on unearned income as wages?

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 13 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I can't find anymore details other than what's in the news stories so .....
Are they really going to give land away ? Land that is easy worth 50k a plot. It's not like there's a shortage of people willing to buy it and build on it. How are they going to assess who can have free land ? And giving away land won't actually mean theres more houses than if the land was sold and raised revenue.
Maybe it could be a scheme where land is 'loaned' and then paid back when/if the house is sold. That would give people a foot on the ladder.

I think the elephant in the room is a projected net population growth of 10mill over next 25 years (that's 400 000 per year) and a house building rate of about 100 000 per year.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34274
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 13 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The actual house need not cost much.

Apologies for linking to a pro nazi bit of toilet roll.

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