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tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43954
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 06 3:47 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
ps thin the squirrels from now on tasty


2 things, no time, and not halal

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33033
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 06 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

ok

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 06 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mmm birch, traditional and if it does ok round there it would be worth considering. The PFAF book does mention it is prone to whipping other close by trees. As for uses it burns OK, you can use the sap and you can spawn the logs, there's several more.

Rather than a row of trees I would go for a mixed shelter belt, have you considered field maple? Out of the trees I've planted on a dry chalky slope it's done the best and out grown the hazel but about twice. The wood is very useful, sap can be used and it's a great plant for native insects etc.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43954
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Rather than a row of trees I would go for a mixed shelter belt, have you considered field maple? Out of the trees I've planted on a dry chalky slope it's done the best and out grown the hazel but about twice. The wood is very useful, sap can be used and it's a great plant for native insects etc.


I've considered field maple but just worried how much it'll self seed.

A new suggestion I've had this morning is an understorey of gorse and broom with a canopy of scots pine.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33033
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

monterey pine ?not short term for timber but an open structure which is a good wind break .
at my mun n dads house we had a driveway/garage between two buildings this channelled what were already strong winds making it dangerous ,having lost 2 garages the wind break got big enough to work
from wind ward it goes
thick rosa rugosa , lilac, monterey pine , rowan, birch (with gooseberry and red currant at floor level ).
it has matured 40 years and really works .it seems to throw off even the really wild ones by both absorbing and deflecting (cos the shortest are to wind it acts like a leafy wedge ).
full of critters too

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
I've considered field maple but just worried how much it'll self seed.

A new suggestion I've had this morning is an understorey of gorse and broom with a canopy of scots pine.


I think you had feild maple in the hedgerows so if it's going to self seed it would do anyway.

Could the nitrogen fixers not make the problem worse by encouraging the plants to grow too quickly? I also remember reading in the latest Permaculture that people in Portugal decided to water their trees 3 times in the course of a year and the trees established much better. Not too much watering to make the trees dependant but enough to keep them alive. As they were hotter and drier than you it might be worth a though.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43954
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

It's not easy getting water up that far, and then applying it...

Thinking of ways to do that more efficiently.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

tahir wrote:
It's not easy getting water up that far, and then applying it...

Thinking of ways to do that more efficiently.


I think they used a second hand water tanker, the thing you stick on the back of a tractor so you might be able to borrow one locally?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43954
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
I think they used a second hand water tanker, the thing you stick on the back of a tractor so you might be able to borrow one locally?


Got one. 750 gallons, but you need a big water source to fill it from, and although it sounds a lot it isn't really.

Nanny



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 4520
Location: carms in wales
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

i agree with willow

there are several types, they are cheap as anything and you can propogate them yourself to fill in the gaps and of course........

then you would have a cricket bat farm

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43954
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nanny wrote:
then you would have a cricket bat farm


Cricket bat willow has huge water requirements....

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14821
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 06 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

What about holly - that would be more wind-break-y in winter (when you tend to get more wind) it's pretty hardy stuff, and there's the christmas decoration bonus.

I like the Oak/hazel/walnut idea, but then I like oak hazel and walnuts!

gil
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18369

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 06 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The only tree I've had self-seeding problems with is sycamore. It's a pain, and even coppicing doesn't make up for its propensity to establish in inappropriate places like sheds, guttering, drains, etc. The ash trees are far better behaved and can be coppiced - good firewood. Birch as TD says, but not for coppice.

Holly is very slow growing.

What did you decide on, Tahir ?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43954
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 06 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

gil wrote:
What did you decide on, Tahir ?


It was looking like:

Scots Pine
Hazel
Various bee shrubs

BUT an architect friend suggested that I look at either Larch or Douglas Fir as they're both better for timber. Been researching today, it seems that DF is not entirely windfirm, on Larch the advice I've had so far indicates it's a good choice but it'll be either Japanese or Hybrid not our native. Still waiting for a couple of people to come back to me.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43954
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 06 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Right, this is (I think) the final version, the sea buckthorn is in cos it's an N fixer and the fruit is supposed to be great for jams, wines etc and has huge amounts of vitamins AND omega 3s.

Looks like attachemnets issn't wotrking for non images, have reposted as an image.


The Scots Pine will be removed at year 15.

Last edited by tahir on Tue Oct 24, 06 12:40 pm; edited 3 times in total

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