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4x4s to pay more
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Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 12:43 pm    Post subject: 4x4s to pay more Reply with quote
    

Light the blue touch paper:

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6146442.stm

and stand well back.....

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

How many of the lowest band cars are currently avaialble to buy new????

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Excellent news!

Both my 4x4s were registered before that date, so I can continue to use them knowing they'll be less competition on the edge of pavements for me to park.

Andy B



Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I wonder how long it will be before it goes to court!

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Rather a daft headline the BBC have used (again!) as it has nothing to do with the fact the car is a 4x4 only the emissions. Surely though as it's a "congestion charge" it should be based on the congestion they vehicles cause, e.g. size?

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Ooh that would have the Volvo estate drivers out in force, what a mix, retired dog owners, decorators and members of the antique trade.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Rather a daft headline the BBC have used (again!)


The headline has now changed to "Polluting cars face charge rise", the article was updated 1 minute after my post, spooky.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The walls have ears.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Jonnyboy wrote:
How many of the lowest band cars are currently avaialble to buy new????

Aaah, but its to be Bands A & B that are to be free. And there's a fair few Band B <120 gm/km vehicles.

What makes it such a delicious spectacle for the detached spectator is that it is *so* transparently the old 'red' Ken Livingstone playing the part of new 'green' Ken...

Silas



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Complete farce.

The new Nissan Navara, which is amongst the biggest of the 4x4 is euro 4 compliant and is very clean the road tax is only £110.00 per year.


Just whjat exactly are they trying to achieve?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Silas wrote:
The new Nissan Navara, which is amongst the biggest of the 4x4 is euro 4 compliant and is very clean the road tax is only £110.00 per year.


I assume the Navara will produce less than 225g of CO2 per kilometre so it'll not pay the higher tax.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Silas wrote:
The new Nissan Navara, which is amongst the biggest of the 4x4 is euro 4 compliant and is very clean the road tax is only £110.00 per year.


I assume the Navara will produce less than 225g of CO2 per kilometre so it'll not pay the higher tax.

Would you believe it seems to be 226....
https://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/N/nissan/navara05-/navara05--costs.html
Which would indicate a VED bill of £210, not £110 per year.
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4834480.stm

At 226 its chucking out almost twice the CO2 per mile or km of a London-sensible Fiesta or C2.
Yes that's less than a Range Rover, but its still (just) in the highest Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) Band.

Currently the cleanest cars, like Insights and IIRC LPG vehicles can pay £10 for an annual London Zone season ticket. The precedent for basing the amount of the charge on the contribution to air quality has long been set.


BTW, its interesting to see how messages become distorted.
Meeting the basic legal requirement isn't all that great a 'green' credential.
If the thing didn't meet "Euro 4" it shouldn't be on sale in the EU - (if not now then by next year, there are specific derogations
for which see https://www.whatvan.co.uk/features.asp?id=4555 )
however the aim of those regs is to cut pollution from the various Nitrogen Oxides (NOx), and as such ain't anything to do with Carbon consumption.
EU Press Release Link

Its not helped by journalists typically sloppy understanding of "pollution".
That said, NOx is arguably *more* important in city centres.
BUT to be fair, the actual levels are not logged against Registration Number (if they are actually published) - the various Euro limits simply set a maximum acceptable limit.
Like i said, meeting the basic legal requirement isn't all that great a 'green' credential for this particular 'monster' 4x4.

Really, shouldn't people be discouraged, by tax charges, from driving things like the Navara

in Central London?

Silas



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dougal wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
Silas wrote:
The new Nissan Navara, which is amongst the biggest of the 4x4 is euro 4 compliant and is very clean the road tax is only £110.00 per year.


I assume the Navara will produce less than 225g of CO2 per kilometre so it'll not pay the higher tax.

Would you believe it seems to be 226....
https://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/N/nissan/navara05-/navara05--costs.html
Which would indicate a VED bill of £210, not £110 per year.
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4834480.stm

At 226 its chucking out almost twice the CO2 per mile or km of a London-sensible Fiesta or C2.
Yes that's less than a Range Rover, but its still (just) in the highest Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) Band.

Currently the cleanest cars, like Insights and IIRC LPG vehicles can pay £10 for an annual London Zone season ticket. The precedent for basing the amount of the charge on the contribution to air quality has long been set.


BTW, its interesting to see how messages become distorted.
Meeting the basic legal requirement isn't all that great a 'green' credential.
If the thing didn't meet "Euro 4" it shouldn't be on sale in the EU - (if not now then by next year, there are specific derogations
for which see https://www.whatvan.co.uk/features.asp?id=4555 )
however the aim of those regs is to cut pollution from the various Nitrogen Oxides (NOx), and as such ain't anything to do with Carbon consumption.
EU Press Release Link

Its not helped by journalists typically sloppy understanding of "pollution".
That said, NOx is arguably *more* important in city centres.
BUT to be fair, the actual levels are not logged against Registration Number (if they are actually published) - the various Euro limits simply set a maximum acceptable limit.
Like i said, meeting the basic legal requirement isn't all that great a 'green' credential for this particular 'monster' 4x4.

Really, shouldn't people be discouraged, by tax charges, from driving things like the Navara

in Central London?



Your information is sadly out of date.

If you bother to check the latest spec vehicles you will discover that you are completely wrong and the VED is in fact £110.00 pa.

Silas



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 6848
Location: Staffordshire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Silas wrote:
dougal wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
Silas wrote:
The new Nissan Navara, which is amongst the biggest of the 4x4 is euro 4 compliant and is very clean the road tax is only £110.00 per year.


I assume the Navara will produce less than 225g of CO2 per kilometre so it'll not pay the higher tax.

Would you believe it seems to be 226....
https://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/N/nissan/navara05-/navara05--costs.html
Which would indicate a VED bill of £210, not £110 per year.
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4834480.stm

At 226 its chucking out almost twice the CO2 per mile or km of a London-sensible Fiesta or C2.
Yes that's less than a Range Rover, but its still (just) in the highest Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) Band.

Currently the cleanest cars, like Insights and IIRC LPG vehicles can pay £10 for an annual London Zone season ticket. The precedent for basing the amount of the charge on the contribution to air quality has long been set.


BTW, its interesting to see how messages become distorted.
Meeting the basic legal requirement isn't all that great a 'green' credential.
If the thing didn't meet "Euro 4" it shouldn't be on sale in the EU - (if not now then by next year, there are specific derogations
for which see https://www.whatvan.co.uk/features.asp?id=4555 )
however the aim of those regs is to cut pollution from the various Nitrogen Oxides (NOx), and as such ain't anything to do with Carbon consumption.
EU Press Release Link

Its not helped by journalists typically sloppy understanding of "pollution".
That said, NOx is arguably *more* important in city centres.
BUT to be fair, the actual levels are not logged against Registration Number (if they are actually published) - the various Euro limits simply set a maximum acceptable limit.
Like i said, meeting the basic legal requirement isn't all that great a 'green' credential for this particular 'monster' 4x4.

Really, shouldn't people be discouraged, by tax charges, from driving things like the Navara

in Central London?



Your information is sadly out of date.

If you bother to check the latest spec vehicles you will discover that you are completely wrong and the VED is in fact £110.00 pa.


Incidentally, If you are going to quote someone, then you should allow the quotation to stand AS WRITTEN, to alter it , as you ahve done is at the very least bloody rude.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 06 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Silas wrote:
Your information is sadly out of date.

If you bother to check the latest spec vehicles you will discover that you are completely wrong and the VED is in fact £110.00 pa.


No, not out of date. Possibly ahead of my time!

I believe it has to do with classification, not emissions.
For vehicles registered up until the end of December, ie for another 6 weeks, they would be taxed as a "TC36 Euro 4 light goods vehicle" - for which the last budget set a flat rate of £110/year, regardless of how ever much carbon the thing consumes.
direct.gov page

It doesn't alter the fact that, if taxed as an ordinary car, it's carbon consumption would put it in the highest category.
By any absolute standard, and by the standard of the average car, this is a polluting gas guzzler.

As I said
dougal wrote:
Would you believe it seems to be 226....
https://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/N/nissan/navara05-/navara05--costs.html
Which would indicate a VED bill of £210, not £110 per year.
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4834480.stm

At 226 its chucking out almost twice the CO2 per mile or km of a London-sensible Fiesta or C2.
Yes that's less than a Range Rover, but its still (just) in the highest Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) Band.


Do you have any evidence for a figure of less than 226?

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