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Sheep-keeping laws in France
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escapedchickens



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 13
Location: France (north)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 1:54 pm    Post subject: Sheep-keeping laws in France  Reply with quote    

Does anyone know if I need to be registered to keep a few sheep for personal consumption in France?
Do lambs which are never going to leave the property need to be tagged?
Any help on the regulations would be a great help...!

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43941
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Sheep-keeping laws in France Reply with quote    

escapedchickens wrote:
Do lambs which are never going to leave the property need to be tagged?


To the letter of the law I'd imagine yes. No expert though, I'm sure someone that knows will be along shortly

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I understand the custom is to ignore any laws over there anyway

But I did find this online: http://limousin.angloinfo.com/countries/france/sheep_goats.asp

Some more knowledgeable people will be able to offer better advice soon.

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8414
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Should have prity much the same law / rules as us but as has been said the french have a reputation for ignoring the ones they dont like. Best to ask localy what others do. especialy the slaughter house.

Justme

madmonk



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 835

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ask Irene (Hardworkinghippy) a fountain of knowledge about France.

hardworkinghippy



Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

As Justme has said, the law's almost the same as in the UK.

Quote:
Does anyone know if I need to be registered to keep a few sheep for personal consumption in France?


You don't have to be registered, that is as a registered farmer paying social security contributions to the MSA, but your sheep and lambs must be registered and you'll be given a personal holding number.

Quote:
Do lambs which are never going to leave the property need to be tagged?


All farm animals must be tagged, even if they sleep on your sofa.

Quote:
Any help on the regulations would be a great help...!


Go to your local Chambre d'Agriculture and confess that you've a few untagged sheep. (If you have more than six ewes you could be seen as rearing them for a profit and you'll be obliged to pay the MSA, so keep just six max otherwise your lamb chops will be very expensive!) They'll give you a lot of forms to fill in, a movements record, transport documents and some brochures which explain about tagging, how to order tags, how to fill in the forms etc.

At that point or later by letter, you may be asked to pay cotisations to COPELDOR (depending on your region) those are to contribute to the service of the animal health support which you'll get - an excellent service and well worth the money. A vet will visit you each year and take the time to talk about all your animals - even domestic ones and he or she will give you a prescription which you can use to get anything you think you'll need in the coming year from COPELDOR at a very low price compared to a commercial vet or a pharmacy.

You send all your forms filled in back to the C d'Ag, and hopefully your dossier will begin to do the rounds:

You might get a letter telling you off, but don't worry you won't go to prison.

You'll be sent a tip tagger plus a larger tag machine and your first 10 yellow tags for your adult sheep and a load of tip-tags for your lambs, plus instructions on how to apply the tags.

In the summer you'll get a registered letter saying that a vet (not the COPELDOR one) will visit to take blood samples and you must be there to present your animals to him or her and sign that the samples have been taken. You can choose to have a cheap basic blood test or pay extra to have your sheep tested for other things which may be a problem in your region or anything else you suspect may be wrong. You'll get a bill.

You may get a controller who'll visit to make sure that everything is in order - make sure it is, but if it isn't you could be fined.

You can kill a few lambs at home for your own consumption but don't sell the meat. You can sell live lambs. Bear in mind that your neighbours pay very dearly to farm legally. If you're seen to be selling too much you could find that you lose their support.

If an animals dies then you must telephone "le carrossage" (You'll find the number in Les Pages Jaunes) to remove the corpse from your premises.

If you need any help with French, just ask.

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Taking this a step in the other direction, how many do you have to keep to get subsidies?

We're still not registered ... decided to leave it a little while, as my back has been so bad, will think again either later this year or early next.

escapedchickens



Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 13
Location: France (north)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Thanks very much.
That's pretty much what I expected it to be, and luckily I've already made an appointment at the Ch d'Ag so I will make sure they're giving me the right forms to fill in!
I guess that if I buy lambs at market they will already have tags?

RichardW



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 8414
Location: Llyn Peninsular North Wales
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vanessa wrote:
Taking this a step in the other direction, how many do you have to keep to get subsidies?


I assume that france is now like the UK and its not a matter of how many you have but if you meet the min land area & are a farmer.

justme

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I know we'd need to be registered as farmers. I thought the minimum land varied according to what you were keeping ... so for chickens it's a lot less than for sheep - which in turn is a lot less than cattle. Maybe I'm wrong there ...

hardworkinghippy



Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 07 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Escapedchickens, If they're in public, they'll be tagged.

Just me, that depends whether you're zero grazing or extensive. Obviously you only need a very small amount of land if you farm intensively.

You must have at least 10 breeding ewes to get grants, but don't get too excited - you'll only get about 11 a head in a "normal" region and a couple of quid more if you live in one of the "handicapped" (usually mountain) areas plus a bit more if they're on extensive pasture (Which means outside for more than x months in the year with a minimum surface of x per ewe ("x " depends on your region).

Organic or self-certified organic 6/7 month good quality lambs sell for about 130 where we are. For the work of keeping and feeding about 25 sheep, shearing eleven, clipping feet a few times a year, tagging, dagging, vet bills, fencing and pasture management you'll earn about a thousand pounds, if you have no losses.

If you've 50 or so ewes, a good dog and a good back it's worth it as you're paying MSA, agricultural land tax and insurance anyway. That's easily manageable by two fit people, but the more animals you have, the more losses you have and urgent is urgent if there's a problem - and sheep get themselves into all sorts of trouble so you have to be around all the time.

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Thanks for the full and honest reply, Irene, even if it wasn't really what I wanted to hear "AND a strong back" rules me out It's getting harder to think of something to "do" with our land now that my back is so weak. I so wanted to "be a farmer".

boisdevie1



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3896
Location: Lancaster
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

A think a big thankyou to HWH. How would we manage without her?

hardworkinghippy



Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 1110
Location: Bourrou South West France
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    



It just so happens that I'm a farmer with the brain of a management consultant. At the Agricultural college where I worked I took on the role of helping young farmers set up in business and that's how I got involved in all this stuff.

Vanessa, you'd be wise to consider something in the agricultural line because after the CMU stops for the "rich British", you'll have to pay for private health cover which may be a lot more expensive than your MSA cotisations.

Just a thought...

Vanessa



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 8324

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 07 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I know ... which is why I'm now wracking my brains trying to work out what to do instead ... Irene, how about Ouessant sheep? I've heard they're much lighter than "normal" sheep ... mind you, that'd make the market-price per head less, too ... oooh, why can't life be simple?!!

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