Preserving green beans and peas in kilner jars

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Preserving green beans and peas in kilner jars
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boisdevie1

Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3897
Location: Lancaster

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 08 3:00 pm Post subject: Preserving green beans and peas in kilner jars
I've got lots of jars and a non-pressure steriliser. Would an hour in the steriliser be enough?

Erikht

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3358

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 08 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Preserving green beans and peas in kilner jars

boisdevie1 wrote:

I've got lots of jars and a non-pressure steriliser. Would an hour in the steriliser be enough?

30 minutes in a hot oven would be enough.

lottie

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 08 3:49 pm Post subject:
There are still deaths from botulism every year in the States from people using non pressure oven sterilizing for veg---bit like Russian roulette really

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 08 6:12 pm Post subject:
You need a pressure canner for peas and beans - they are biggest botulism culprit. Freeze 'em. Or blitz them for soup, and freeze them. Or make chutney.

Erikht

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3358

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 08 8:15 pm Post subject:
Or salt them.

Sarah D

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 08 8:46 pm Post subject:
Don't even contemplate it without a pressure canner, the real thing; you run a very real risk of botulism poisoning which can be fatal. You can't smell it, see it, hear it or taste it, don't take the risk. Freeze or dry the peas; you can pickle the beans like the American dilly beans - in vinegar with plenty of dill. Lots of recipes on American sites/Google for them.

Bebo

Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12590
Location: East Sussex

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 08 9:43 pm Post subject:

Sarah D wrote:

Don't even contemplate it without a pressure canner, the real thing; you run a very real risk of botulism poisoning which can be fatal. You can't smell it, see it, hear it or taste it, don't take the risk. Freeze or dry the peas; you can pickle the beans like the American dilly beans - in vinegar with plenty of dill. Lots of recipes on American sites/Google for them.

You mention the real thing. I was thinking of having a go with a pressure cooker. I'd only be able to do two or three jars at a time but I thought it would be the same as a 'proper' canner. Am I wrong?

Sarah D

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 8:20 am Post subject:

You're wrong - a pressure cooker is a different animal to a pressure canner. I think a pressure canner operates at much higher pressure, but I'm not sure about the science of it, I just know the following are the godlen rules:

For veg, meat, fish and dairy produce, only a pressure CANNER can be used, or you run a very real risk of failure and possible death - no other way to put it! Only fruit and tomatoes ahve a high enough level of acidity (and even then, you should add a good squirt of lemon juice to tomatoes) to be bottled safely.

For fruit and tomatoes, an ordinary large saucepan with a tea towel in the bottom and lid on is excellent for hot water processing. You can find the individual times for different fruits in a good preserving book/website.

I've never used a pressure cooker, so wouldn't be able to advise as to how to go about bottling fruit in one.

Also, important to invest in the proper bottling jars, lids and rubber seals.

Edited after re-reading my onw post here:

https://creativeliving.10.forumer.com/about437.html

Last edited by Sarah D on Wed Jul 30, 08 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 8:43 am Post subject:

A pressure cooker on full pressure will reach 120C, which is the equivalent of a hospital autoclave, i.e. its certainly hot enough to sterilise the beans.

I'm not clear why it should be unsafe to use it to bottle beans and peas, but I'd think that a pressure cooker would cool down and warm up faster than a pressure canner, so you'd have to use a somewhat different method (you'd have to cook it a little longer presumably).

There are plenty of recipes for doing this in older recipe books (just picked up a 1950s reprint of a post War one entitled 'modern pressure cooking', which has such recipes).

So... Unless I'm missing something fairly fundamental, and that does happen sometimes, it should work, but it isn't the same as using a canner.

Erikht

Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3358

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 10:29 am Post subject:

A very important aspect of canning, or bottling as it is rightly called in UK English (tsk, tsk), is how the conserve is being stored after bottling. At degrees lower than 4 Celsius, there are no real danger for botulism, and they grow very slowly if the temperature is under 8. Also, an acidity of 4,5 pH or lower will reduce the dangers to almost nil. Likewise, water activity is important. With 16% salt in a conserve (or any organic matter), the water activity will be around 0,90 (1,0 is an untreated food item). The only dangerous bacteria that might be able to grow under these circumstances are Staphylococcus aureus aerob, but as this bacteria needs oxygen to grow, it should not really be a big problem(14 % salt should be just fine, really).

The all too usual combination of lacking hygiene and idiocy is probably the most dangerous aspect of conserving food.

Sarah D

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 2584

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 12:25 pm Post subject:
Right-oh, I'm bowing out of this one now. I've said my piece, and I'm right on this, so if you want to take risks, go ahead, but don't say I didn't tell you so.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 12:40 pm Post subject:

Erikht wrote:

The only thing that I can envisage really going wrong with canning beans in this way is that you wouldn't have either enough acidity, possibly enough salt, and you may not manage a good and even heat distribution due to faster heating and cooling in the pressure cooker rather than a pressure canner. As I understand it both work in the same temperature (hence also the same pressure) range, i.e. 115-120C.

The other concern would be whether or not there is enough capacity in there to really get away with multiple cans that aren't clunking about. Thats a risk, not only of not getting everything up to pressure but of breaking things.

I do bottle a few things in the pressure cooker; sometimes I'll put a batch of beans and bacon (in tomato sauce) on to cook, with extra ingredients in a kilner jar and put that in there with the rest of the stew, and cook it till its good and dead, Requires a good wash, the jar, when its cooled down of course, being covered in sauce. I also do tomatoes that way when I have a glut, usually with some basil, salt and very thin slivvers of garlic. Very nearly a sauce for having with pasta just in itself.

The pressure cooker book I recently found is lying in the loo at home, I'll look up what it says about beans later on.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 6:36 pm Post subject:

The only difference I can see between my pressure canner and my pressure cooker (other than size) is that the pressure canner gives you an absolute pressure reading (ie in KPA or bars) and the cooker only an relative one. So with a pressure cooker, you can't be sure what pressures you are reaching and for how long, so it's not 'safe' to can in it.

Canning is pressure-cooked. Bottling is just heat - they aren't the same, even though they are both done in jars!

lottie

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 6:50 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

You've got a dial pressure canner but they also come with weights like a pressure cooker---depends which brand you get--I just don't understand why people would take risks for a 1lb. of beans when they aren't starving--it's like dicing with fungi unless you are an expert--cowards tend to live longer if more boring lives

I can bean/meat stews but I always use a pressure canner and throw in some acidic veg very often.

Bebo

Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 12590
Location: East Sussex

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 08 8:47 pm Post subject:
https://missvickie.com/canning/cookercanner.html Done a bit of googling and Sarah D is correct in terms of current advice. Supposedly pre-1980something pressure cookers were considered OK to use and 10 minutes was added onto the canning times. Looks like I need to find out about shipping costs from the good old US of A for one.

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