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Gender bending chemicals and ISA.
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Legion



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Western isles, Scotland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 04 8:18 pm    Post subject: Gender bending chemicals and ISA.  Reply with quote    

In 2002, the powers that be decided that to improve the quality of land (machair) within certain areas of the uists they would agree to it being sprayed with sewerage sludge. I did raise concerns at the time publicly as to the content and repercussions from this decision especially on such fragile land.
It has now been discovered that the sludge contained gender bending chemicals with the result that male lambs have been 'feminised' by chemicals and substances contianed within the sludge , known as endocrine disruptors.
Although the result from the survey says that 'It is 'UNLIKELY' that the observed behavioural pattern would have significant adverse consequences with respect to animal production and do not pose any direct danger to the consumer'.(The public use this area as a campsite during the summer)
50 tons of sludge ( the recommended ratio) per HA was used, this area has now been fenced off until 2005.
Yet!! according to current European legislation Scottish Water is NOT required to test for endocrine disruptors in sludge which is applied to land.

Now that brings me on to the next subject .

It has been disclosed that in south uist a fish farm has been quarantined as it is under suspicion of harbouring ISA ( Infectious Salmon Anaemia).

Extensive tests will be carried out over the next six months, during which time the company will have to follow stringent movement restrictions.

Meanwhile a north uist crofter - is applying untreated salmon fish waste at the ratio of 50 tons per ha to his land as fertilizer, with approval from the Scottish Executive. Fish waste, from salmon farms has been arriving on articulated lorries at the rate of over 20 tons per day for the last 6 weeks , coming in from all the fish farms on the southern isles (north uist , south uist & Benbecula), some waste even coming in on the ferry from other Islands(Lewis and Harris).

SEPA, insist they are within the law and there is nothing they can do as the fields are not near a water course and are 100 mtrs from the sea.

Worrying aint it..... such is the madness of the islands.

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 04 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Quite worrying, I've been concerened by the waste from fish farming for some time.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44302
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 04 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Not my favourite thing, fish farming. I really don't like it.

Legion



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Western isles, Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 04 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

you wouldnt if you saw how it was REALLY done, we even refuse the brood stock as food for the wildcats (louse ridden things - the fish not the cats)

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44302
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 04 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

So are you a fish farmer?

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 04 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Gender bending chemicals and ISA. Reply with quote    

Legion wrote:
In 2002, the powers that be decided that to improve the quality of land (machair) within certain areas of the uists they would agree to it being sprayed with sewerage sludge. I did raise concerns at the time publicly as to the content and repercussions from this decision especially on such fragile land.
It has now been discovered that the sludge contained gender bending chemicals with the result that male lambs have been 'feminised' by chemicals and substances contianed within the sludge , known as endocrine disruptors.


Do you have a reference for this? Can you point us to a study that shows this to be true for this scheme?

Quote:

Although the result from the survey says that 'It is 'UNLIKELY' that the observed behavioural pattern would have significant adverse consequences with respect to animal production and do not pose any direct danger to the consumer'.(The public use this area as a campsite during the summer)


And you have reason to doubt that there would be no adverse effect? Share it with us.

Quote:

50 tons of sludge ( the recommended ratio) per HA was used, this area has now been fenced off until 2005.
Yet!! according to current European legislation Scottish Water is NOT required to test for endocrine disruptors in sludge which is applied to land.


What do you propose should be done with end-process sewage sludge?

Increasingly, people simply expect this stuff to vanish; we can't put in in the sea, supermarkets won't buy food from land where it's spread, and we won't pay the bills for incineration (nor will anyone volounteer their own back-yard as a site for said incineration).

What do you propose should be done with it?

Quote:

Now that brings me on to the next subject .

It has been disclosed that in south uist a fish farm has been quarantined as it is under suspicion of harbouring ISA ( Infectious Salmon Anaemia).

Extensive tests will be carried out over the next six months, during which time the company will have to follow stringent movement restrictions.

Meanwhile a north uist crofter - is applying untreated salmon fish waste at the ratio of 50 tons per ha to his land as fertilizer, with approval from the Scottish Executive. Fish waste, from salmon farms has been arriving on articulated lorries at the rate of over 20 tons per day for the last 6 weeks , coming in from all the fish farms on the southern isles (north uist , south uist & Benbecula), some waste even coming in on the ferry from other Islands(Lewis and Harris).

SEPA, insist they are within the law and there is nothing they can do as the fields are not near a water course and are 100 mtrs from the sea.

Worrying aint it..... such is the madness of the islands.


And you'd have -what- done with the fish waste?

We all eat, drink and go to the can. All of this produces waste; whether it's farm waste, our own waste, or whatever. And that waste has to go somewhere. Unless you're suggesting that people stop farming and going to the bog, then you have to accept that the waste goes -somewhere-.

Where do you propose that it should go, other than not in your back yard?

Last edited by cab on Fri Nov 26, 04 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 04 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Jonnyboy wrote:
Quite worrying, I've been concerened by the waste from fish farming for some time.


You're right to be. But be careful not to portray all fish farming as being bad; like all forms of agriculture, there is good practice and there is bad practice (as best shon in far-Eastern prawn farming, where the differences are more obvious).

leebu



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 418
Location: east yorkshire
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 04 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I want to know if "gender bending chemicals" is a technical term. Thanks alot Legion, I just spat tea all down my monitor!

Legion



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Western isles, Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 04 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The two topics were taken from our local paper - we know it goes on, the fish waste used to go to Denmark - dont know whey they stopped it. One of my concerns is that with the possible ISA infection is south uist - where is all their waste going , talk about cross contamination.

See if there is anything else on the Stornoway gazette page , its a weekly - as are both local papers(west highland free press is the other), apart from the real local one - thats monthly ! lol

and ! i'll agree with you - not in my backyard.....

deerstalker



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 589

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 04 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Cab wrote:

You're right to be. But be careful not to portray all fish farming as being bad; like all forms of agriculture, there is good practice and there is bad practice (as best shon in far-Eastern prawn farming, where the differences are more obvious).


Think this refers just to Salmon farming which over the years has proved to be an ecological nightmare.

Massive increases in sea lice destroying wild salmon and seatrout stocks, genetic contamination of wild stock, pollution caused by waste, health issues connected with eating farmed salmon and they even have to colour the flesh pink!

There is an answer to the problem of waste sludge - don't buy or eat farmed salmon!

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44302
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 04 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Deerstalker wrote:
There is an answer to the problem of waste sludge - don't buy or eat farmed salmon!


That's what I do

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41988
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 04 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I don't either, but the sludge in question is from sewerage, now unless the salmon are highly trained....

Legion



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Western isles, Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 04 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

No it isnt sean, the start of my post cleary says what is happening to the site where they sprayed the 'sludge' a couple of years ago. I was horrified they even allowed it, but not suprised with the results. We did tests on this kind of thing over 15 years ago in yorkshire - though they were never confirmed, I had living ( well sort of ) proof at the time, but it was just dismissed, and nothing in my books is a co-incidence, anyhow you read the result.

The fish are a different matter, look at the suspected putbreak on south uist? where has all their waste been going?was the same lorry used to pick up waste from other fish farms - were uncleaned tubs left - has the waste passed though any water couses where they could drip?..more importantly is anyone looking into it? and where has this disease come from , and how?...so yes, I arent well pleased that it drives right past my door, up to 24 tons at a time on a huge articulated lorry, and is then spred on fields that I used to walk my dogs near..........but we'll see, we'll see!!

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 04 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I've got a comment on the 'gender bending lambs' from Imperial College London who were asked to review this story and the report it came from by Water UK (water company research group). I don't want to post the comment as their research paper has not been published yet and I might get into trouble (the power of Google and all that) but in summary it says the reasearch into the lambs is highly dodgy in a not very scientific manner, the main point being that there was no sampling of the soil to actually access the impact on the grazing etc so to make the link was taking a few leaps of supposition. In some of the evidence where samples were done the active chemicals were found on land without sludge. Also these compounds do occur naturally in greens (beans, brassicas etc) and in manmade products (plastics to wrap food etc) and the amounts in the sludge were negligble compared to these sources.

Declaring interests - I work for a water company.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 44302
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 04 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Well it's good to know both sides, you'd better post the relevant bits of the report when you're allowed

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