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Electrical wiring for outside
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moogie



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 525
Location: Near Bridgend
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 12:50 pm    Post subject: Electrical wiring for outside  Reply with quote    

My old gas greenhouse heater has become rather unsafe, and I have been given a brand new electric one by someone for free!! Trouble is I obvuisly now need to set up an outdoor extention lead to connect it from my house supply to the greenhouse, about 40 feet down the garden. What do I need and how do I do it? Is it fairly simple (I can wire lights and plugs and things) or do I need an electrician?

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41705
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

You need a separate circuit for a supply to any detached outhouse to meet legal regs.

moogie



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 525
Location: Near Bridgend
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

err, so I need an electrician then?

sean
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 41705
Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Not necessarily. I'd get one but I'm scared of electrickery.

Blacksmith



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 5025
Location: Berkshire
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Not got my 16 th edition regs but, Iwould have thought if you used an extension lead with an RCD on it, its no different to using an elecrtic lawnmower ?
Screwfix do O/S plugs and sockets that meet spec, but to wire permantly you would need a registered 16 th ( or is it 17 th now ?) edition qualified electrician.
Dave

footprints



Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: North Wales
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 3:53 pm    Post subject: outdoor eleccy Reply with quote    

Blacksmith wrote:
Not got my 16 th edition regs but, Iwould have thought if you used an extension lead with an RCD on it, its no different to using an elecrtic lawnmower ?
Screwfix do O/S plugs and sockets that meet spec, but to wire permantly you would need a registered 16 th ( or is it 17 th now ?) edition qualified electrician.
Dave
Since around January of this year it was made a criminal offence to install new supplies or outlets for use in kitchens, bathrooms, or for external supplies.

No problem with the extention lead, plug in RCD makes good sense. Want to fit something a little more permanent and its not just a qualified spark you need, the sparky also reeds to be registered under the part P scheme. This is now controlled by the local authority building control. All work that is "notifiable" has to have the appropriate paper work issued and copies sent to building control. Don't do it, and you have broken the law. You are liable to a hefty fine and in addition to this, should you have an accident or a fire, and you had taken the short cut, your insurance company will dismiss your claim.

There is an alternative if you think that your competant to do the work yourself. You first notify "building control that you are going to make additions/alterations, then on completion they will come out and test and inspect the work. (where I live it is currently about 65) If they find fault with the work you will have to either remove it or rectify the fault, and they will come out again for a retest, and another fee.

Legend has it that this change in the law was brought about 'cos a ministers daughter drilled an incorrectly installed cable and managed to kill herself.

I'm a kithen fitter (and a qualified spark) and @ 50 have just had to go back to college to sit my C&G 2381, so that if I want to register for part P and have the privelidge of paying about 500 a year, I can do so. I'm not happy, can you tell?
At the time some wag suggested that the sales of double adapters and extension leads would go through the roof.

Well I have to say that I thought that things had got bad, then I heard that you will possible need a licence (costing a fat annual fee) if you have a muck pile. We have horses. Again I'm unhappy!

Somebody somewhere is taking the pxxx.

halloween



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 61
Location: Co. Galway, Ireland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: outdoor eleccy Reply with quote    

footprints wrote:
then I heard that you will possible need a licence (costing a fat annual fee) if you have a muck pile.


WHAT THE ????

footprints



Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: North Wales
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: outdoor eleccy Reply with quote    

halloween wrote:
footprints wrote:
then I heard that you will possible need a licence (costing a fat annual fee) if you have a muck pile.


WHAT THE ????

I Know, the more I think about it, the more I think I have dreamt it! Nurse!!!!!!

Will check when she that must be obeyed comes in frrom a day down the pit

Blue Sky



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7618
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I would definately go with Blacksmith. Just run a long extension out there. That is what I did for me electric pig fence. B0((0c$ to the regulations eh?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: outdoor eleccy Reply with quote    

footprints wrote:
Since around January of this year it was made a criminal offence to install new supplies or outlets for use in kitchens, bathrooms, or for external supplies.


Is it actually criminal? I thought it was along the lines of other building regs and could cause problems when you come to sell the house? True about the insurance companies but they also wouldn't pay out before the regs if they thought there was anything dodgy with the wiring.

I know the regs are a real pain as I tried to find out some details and there seemed to be a large number of confused people and upset sparkies.

As an armature one thing that's always puzzled me is the design of many of the electrical components such as sockets. The method of attaching wires by just shoving the ends into a hole and hoping the grub screw grips all the wire without any pulling out just doesn't work that well. Surely something more elegant would have been invented by now? Then there's the question of to twist or not to twist wires together before inserting.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 05 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm always woried about using extension leads due to water from condensation dripping into the sockets. I think you can get special leads designed for garden user but I'm not sure. Either way I'd wrap the sockets in a black bag and make sure the lead is not overloaded by the heater especailly as some leads have quite a low rating if not fully unwound.

footprints



Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: North Wales
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 05 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: outdoor eleccy Reply with quote    

footprints wrote:
halloween wrote:
footprints wrote:
then I heard that you will possible need a licence (costing a fat annual fee) if you have a muck pile.


WHAT THE ????

I Know, the more I think about it, the more I think I have dreamt it! Nurse!!!!!!

Will check when she that must be obeyed comes in frrom a day down the pit
Eeeee! got the wrong end of the stick as usual. Its not a licence, and the rules and regs now applicable to muck piles may not apply to every body.

I apologise profusely to anybody that has worked through the night hiding their muck pile

The muck pile management regs apply to farms that are trying to meet cross compliance thingies for being farm assured.

We got the info by word of mouth (send three and fourpence were going to dance) and were told we would be affected because we keep horses on a farm that is farm assured.

Last edited by footprints on Thu Jul 14, 05 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total

footprints



Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: North Wales
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 05 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: outdoor eleccy Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
footprints wrote:
Since around January of this year it was made a criminal offence to install new supplies or outlets for use in kitchens, bathrooms, or for external supplies.


Is it actually criminal? I thought it was along the lines of other building regs and could cause problems when you come to sell the house? True about the insurance companies but they also wouldn't pay out before the regs if they thought there was anything dodgy with the wiring.

I know the regs are a real pain as I tried to find out some details and there seemed to be a large number of confused people and upset sparkies.

As an armature one thing that's always puzzled me is the design of many of the electrical components such as sockets. The method of attaching wires by just shoving the ends into a hole and hoping the grub screw grips all the wire without any pulling out just doesn't work that well. Surely something more elegant would have been invented by now? Then there's the question of to twist or not to twist wires together before inserting.


These are the links from the NICEIC website.

Main page http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/partpindex.html

This page is face up to new laws or face fines.
http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/newsitemjan052.html

This page is called green fingers not burnt fingers.
http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/newsitemjan05.html

footprints



Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 234
Location: North Wales
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 05 7:08 am    Post subject: electric fences Reply with quote    

simon wrote:
I would definately go with Blacksmith. Just run a long extension out there. That is what I did for me electric pig fence. B0((0c$ to the regulations eh?


For mains operated electric fences in the UK, see regs

605-14 (605-14-01 to 605-14-06

Then get a battery operated one

Blue Sky



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7618
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 05 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: outdoor eleccy Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
I'm always woried about using extension leads due to water from condensation dripping into the sockets. I think you can get special leads designed for garden user but I'm not sure. Either way I'd wrap the sockets in a black bag and make sure the lead is not overloaded by the heater especailly as some leads have quite a low rating if not fully unwound.


Leads are available for exterior use with caps fitted over the outlets similar to those used on some campsites. (see below) I wouldn't leave one out in the pouring rain but they should be most suitable for an outbuilding / greenhouse (temporary use only of course)

footprints wrote:
[I apologise profusely to anybody that has worked through the night hiding their muck pile


Does this mean I can take my wellies off now then?

footprints wrote:
[For mains operated electric fences in the UK, see regs

605-14 (605-14-01 to 605-14-06

Then get a battery operated one


Glad I aren't in the UK then

They do a good "solar charged" battery powered unit here. Switch it on and forget about it. Not much dearer than the mains one either.

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