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Blue Peter



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 05 2:03 pm    Post subject: Soap  Reply with quote    

I was looking around at the soap making recently, and I cam across Mochyn's (I think, apols if wrong) recipe for castile soap using olive oil. We're tempted to have a go, but being cheapskates , wondered if there were recipes for the rather cheaper rape seed oil.


In general, what's the relationship between the type of fat and the type of soap?


Peter.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 05 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Soap Reply with quote    

Blue Peter wrote:
I was looking around at the soap making recently, and I cam across Mochyn's (I think, apols if wrong) recipe for castile soap using olive oil. We're tempted to have a go, but being cheapskates , wondered if there were recipes for the rather cheaper rape seed oil.


In general, what's the relationship between the type of fat and the type of soap?


Peter.


Different oils produce different kinds of soaps, depending on the balance of different fatty acids in the soap. You can make a soap from pretyt much any fat, and you can find a recipe (or deduce one) quite readily.

Rape seed oil will make a soap that is kind of light, fairly free of scent, whiteish, but rather uninspiring IMHO. My own preferred mixture includes olive oil (cheap extra virgin from ALDI and LIDL), coconut oil (surprisingly cheap in oriental supermarkets) and sunflower oil (which is marginally better than rapeseed for cooking, IMHO, so it's what we have in normally). I find this mix, with other ingredients added at soft trace, works a treat. The basic soap smells 'soapy', gives a rich, soft foam, and is hard enough to be a soap without being a tough block.

What you need is a saponification chart; basically it's a list of fats, each with a number next to it. Multiply the weight of fat by the number to get a weight of lye (sodium hydroxide) to saponify the fat, add the lye needed for all the fats, and that's your recipe. Then you just need an idea of how much water to add to the lye (on this opinions differ, but use any similar recipe from a book as guidance).

Bugs



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10743

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 05 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Soap Reply with quote    

cab wrote:
My own preferred mixture includes olive oil (cheap extra virgin from ALDI and LIDL)


Sally_in_wales said that cheap "pomace" oil is fine for soap...does it make any difference in your opinion or is it just a matter of what you keep in your house?

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 05 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Soap Reply with quote    

Bugs wrote:
cab wrote:
My own preferred mixture includes olive oil (cheap extra virgin from ALDI and LIDL)


Sally_in_wales said that cheap "pomace" oil is fine for soap...does it make any difference in your opinion or is it just a matter of what you keep in your house?


The balance of different glycerides/fatty acids in pomace oil ought to be as near as damn it the same as in better olive oils. There have been warnings in the past about PAH's in pomace oil, but I don't know where we currently stand on that.

But in principle, the qualities of the soap (lathering, moisturising, etc) should be about the same. I'm sure Sally (who I would dub a soap expert in residence) is going to have a greater insight into this than me.

But frankly, with the price of reasonably good extra virgin being so very low in the 'pile it hight flog it cheap' supermarkets, I'm quite happy to go with that.

Stacey



Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 8380
Location: Kernow
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 05 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm a bit of a ruffian when it comes to making soap. If it lathers and gets us clean I ain't too fussy

I use this site
http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php
to work out what amounts of what to use. Yesterday I had some lamb fat left from the mousakka so I measured it typed it into the calculator with 250g of coconut oil and it told me how much caustic soda I needed and how much water. I found some patchouli and some ylang ylang lying around so I chucked them in when it was cool to counteract the lamby smell. As long as it doesn't take the enamel off the bath I'll be happy
I usually use either lidls cheap olive oil or some sunflower oil.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 05 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Soap Reply with quote    

Blue Peter wrote:
We're tempted to have a go, but being cheapskates , wondered if there were recipes for the rather cheaper rape seed oil.

Peter.


I use part rapeseed part tallow in my 'historic' softsoap, it was one of the classic Tudor soapmaking oils. In my opinion, by itself, its not a great soapmaking oil, and a number of people have reported rancidity with it over time if used alone, but its certainly fine in a mixture. The best soaps for all round use will use a mix of oils/fats that are liquid at room temp, and those that are solid, so a lot of beginners use part lard or pura (that solid veg lard stuff), but as mentiones, every oil has slightly different characteristics so its worth using a good lye calculator. The MMS one already mentioned is very good, but if you want to know more about the likely properties of your soap try this one too http://www.soapcalc.com/calc/SoapCalc.asp it is more complicated but it does however give you details of how hard, fluffy etc your soap will be and details the various fatty acids that make it that way, which is handy if you want to know that sort of thing!

judith



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 05 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My one and only attempt so far used lard, milk and lye. It was incredibly easy and worked much better than I was expecting. If you want a cheap and straightforward recipe for your first attempt, then let me know.

Bugs



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 10743

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 05 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Judith wrote:
My one and only attempt so far used lard, milk and lye. It was incredibly easy and worked much better than I was expecting. If you want a cheap and straightforward recipe for your first attempt, then let me know.


Judith, how long have you been on this site, to say that , come on, chop chop, out with it. I wouldn't have any objection to using lard...I think.

judith



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 05 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Sorry Miss. I'll remember next time Miss.

I've mislaid my little book that I write these things in. This is generally a useful substitute for a brain, but is no good at all when you lose it!
I'll post it as soon as I find it again Miss!

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 14810
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 05 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I've used a recipe with just beef dripping and caustic soda. (I'll get the recipe later miss bugs!) If you like, I'll try it out tonight, and let you know what its like - its ready now!

Viking_Chick



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 05 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

When you buy coconut oil for your soap cab, do you buy fractionated or not?

My location means sources are limited, and I will be ordering from a place that only sells fractionated coconut oil, so might try it if it is any sense.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 05 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Viking_Chick wrote:
When you buy coconut oil for your soap cab, do you buy fractionated or not?


*scurries off to look in the cupboard*

Don't have any in at the moment so I can't say. It's the cheapest stuff around, though. For the life of me I can't find a good oriental supplier online with the oil I buy. Irritating!

I'll try to pop out to a shop some time soon and have a peek.

Quote:

My location means sources are limited, and I will be ordering from a place that only sells fractionated coconut oil, so might try it if it is any sense.


Makes sense. If I can find the brand of coconut oil I use, might save you a few bob buying a cooking grade online.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 05 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Aha! Found some. I've used this one before:
http://www.simplyspice.co.uk/coconut-oil-p-140.html

Viking_Chick



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 05 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Thanks Cab - not only do I know that stuff should work, it is also *much* cheaper than the stuff I was looking at ordering.

I wonder what the difference is between oil for cooking and oil for massage....? Is there any....?

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 05 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Viking_Chick wrote:

I wonder what the difference is between oil for cooking and oil for massage....? Is there any....?


I have no idea. Give it a go and find out

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