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Throwing fish back dead
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carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 5:55 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

I personally beleive that some species are under threat from over fishing and if we are lucky the powers that be will do something positive about the situation before it's to late.

It is often put across that fishermen are gready and to some point they are, as they are paid a share of value of the catch, no fish no money,they have to be at sea to make a living and there is no dole money if they are stuck in for a month or sick pay if you are taken ill.
Taking that into acount they also pay the highest N.I stamp of 7 a week and don't see much for it.

The other thing fishermen are well documented of doing is earning 900 a week and getting away without paying there taxes ,This is not true as more fishermen are leaving fishing due to lack of money than any other reason,and my last years wages as a mate on a 90' trawler on 12% share was just over 10,000 before tax.

Last edited by carlseawolf on Thu Nov 18, 10 6:50 am; edited 2 times in total

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 6:12 am    Post subject: Conservation is a beautiful word ! Reply with quote    

I love this word as it mean putting less pressure on the fish stocks for future generations to have more fish and bigger catches, there is not a fisherman in the world who would not disagree with this statement , including myself.

Here is the delemer , we are an island that has joined other nations in a fishing policy where we have the majority of the fishing grounds but the smallest of fishing fleet to fish it,with the only protected ground inside the 12 mile limit set aside for small UK vessels.

To conserve fish all nations must agree to stop fishing for a certain time / species at the same time to make it work,but in general this never happens.

Take in the 80's the UK goverment came up with an idea to save the cod by banning all UK registered vessels from landing any cod at market as that would take the preasure of th stocks,all that happened was the french made a small fortune selling us cod they had caught of our coast in the first place,

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

To put the fishies in a land point of view. you own a piece of land and in the middle off this land is a forest and you say to all the local gun clubs you can all shoot on my land but not in the forest.
Give them about 6 months of shooting the surounding area and it will get to the point of nothing left so they start to look towards the forest where all the animals are hiding in safety.

Now all it takes is for one of these hunters to be short of money and is hunting for his tea but there is nothing outside of the forest , the point now arises of do i enter the forest to bag my dinner or go home and have no tea. (This is what the fisherman faces at sea every day ,no fish no dinner)

Sooner or latter someone will poach into the forest to get a bigger bag because that is human nature and then there is no stopping the destruction ( and by the time the land owner spots whats going on and trys to stop it the damage will be to far gone to be reversed) And this is what is happening in UK waters every day of every year.

Last edited by carlseawolf on Thu Nov 18, 10 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 6:49 am    Post subject: What has to be done Reply with quote    

To control conservation in UK waters we must first take back the seas around britian and reinstate the 200 mile limit on fishing for UK registered boats only.

Second the goverment needs to find out the true state of the fish stocks from the people who catch the fish not the logbooks they fill in , as they only tell them what the goverment wants to hear.

Third , a conservation based on scientific fact that will be seen to work by all parties not just a means of making the goverment look good on there green credentials.

Fourth , all uk caught fish to be landed into the UK, as this will make a demand on fish by are EU partners as spanish flag ships would have to land in the UK instead of taking back to spain where we see no financial benifit in the fish been caught by our neighbours.

And the last thing is to ditch the species quota for a total tonnage quota with no disguards , we no there is a market on the continent for small fish so lets use this to make money from the millions of tons of dead fish thrown over the side each year

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

What is your definition of "overfished"?

The definition of a species been over fished is when more fish are killed than the estimated fish population can breed in each year.

This is based on the amount of fish been killed been inaccurate (logbook entries) and scientific studies taken aboard fishing vessels afew times of the year.

It's a bit like trying to set a quota of the amount of bunnies in a field , ask the shooter and he will give a small figure , send in a scientist to study them and depending what time of day will give diffrent results.( just like fishing the full picture can never be know as it will also depend on male to female ratio)

paul1963



Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 2161
Location: No longer active on the forum
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Really interesting to read your views on this subject Carlseawolf. I have been watching a channel 5 series on maritime matters recently and am now able to understand the background issues that are in place when fishing boats are boarded and catches checked.

What is coming across to me from this whole thread is that fishing, rather than being an honest form of providing food from times immemorial has become a largely political issue, with a bit of environmentalsim chucked into the pot and is a right muddle.

Sad times for our fishermen.

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The politics started back in 1971 the EU was first formed and the common fisheries policy was dreamt up.

In 1971 it was post codwar in britian and the fishing fleet was at it's lowest with very few boats at sea and no offical body speaking for the fishermen, This is when the goverment body now know as DEFRA went to the EU to talk fishing and farming quotas.

This meeting is why we are such a state as the fishing fleet was a small player in british industary so the goverment used the fishing groundas a lever to get a better deal for there farmers .( after all there are more farms owned by members of goverment than fishing boats) and so did the rest of the big players.

This proccess of sorting out the common fisheries policy only took 2 weeks to complete , where as the for mentioned logbook has 5 diffrent coloured pages to be handed in to certain goverment bodies depending on where you land took them about 2 years to decide the 5 colours.
To put it simply the fishing industary was sold out to save the farmers as they where deamed more important.

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Policing the seas around britian!

As with any police force they can only prosercute you if they catch you do something wrong.
You may have seen the tv programmes where the fisheries are boarding boats form rubber inflatables and looking like they are saving the seas around britian , but it's all a show to make the general public feel good that something is been done.

This is how it realy is , it's not a stealth boat that sneaks up on the fleet and catches them doing bad , instead it's about 150' long built like a block of flats and pours smoke out of it's stack that can be seen for 12 miles on a good day.

To counter this the fisherman has radar that can see up to 60 mile that is smart enough to tell him the course and speed of a vessel long before you can visually see it, they talk on radio and phones to update the movement of the vessel so they know where they are at all times.

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The main thorn in the side is the planes as you don't see them ,and because you have to put your position in your log book each day there is a chance of been caught out if you say your somewhere you never went to.

The fisheries police are like any other police in the fact if your get boarded to many times you can claim harasement if they find nothing wrong , this intern allow you to do what you like for a small amount of time as they don't want to be in court on an harasement charge as it doesn't look good on the public image.

Every local seafish area out to the 6 mile limit has it's own rules as well as the ones made by DEFRA so quite often the two will be diffrent on the same subject.
Many of these small seafish areas run what we call an inshore boat to check up on the smaller fishing craft , but only run them for a few days a month due to budget cuts..

crofter



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 10 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Quote:
THE SCOTTISH Fishermen's Federation has welcomed the new 'FishFight' campaign launched by food campaigner and celebrity chef Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall to end the practice of the discarding of fish.

Responding to the launch of the campaign, SFF chief executive Bertie Armstrong described the discarding of fish as a 'madness' that highlighted the need for urgent reform of regulations in the Common Fisheries Policy, which are at the root of the problem.

He said the difference between this campaign and a plethora of previous initiatives is that this one recognises the real underlying problem of unfit regulation. The problem does not lie in the behaviour of fishermen but rather with the detail of the regulations - which must be complied with to stay within the law.

"We wholeheartedly agree that the discarding of fish is madness and we welcome this exposure to the public of the problems embedded in the present CFP rules, which completely fail to take an ecosystem approach to a mixed environment such as the North Sea," he said.

Bodger



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 13491

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 10 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There could well be a mixture of motivations at work here.

First from Hugh, as he seeks more publicity in his attempt to become the official UK saviour of all things foody. Secondly from the fishermen as they basically look for ways of landing more fish than they are currently allowed to.
If we believe in quotas as a way of helping to save our fisheries, why not allow the fisherman to land and sell the under sized fish but then take that weight away from their total quota ?

The CFP is obviously not working. Its a great shame that the UK is not allowed to police its own fishing policy.

carlseawolf



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Location: Ilfracombe , North Devon
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 10 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I agree hugh will feather his own nest during the publicity of this cause , but without food champions like him who has the ability to turn heads and start asking questions the cause would never come to light .

I agree that no more tonnage of fish should be landed than at present but the type of fish landed should be changed to all disguards , and where possible find a market for small fish and anything else put to fish meal backed by a goverment minimum price.

This fish challenge if hugh does it right will save what is left of the british fishing industary for the future , but if done wrong and he gets no public support it will just make the fishermen lawless pirates in the eyes of the general public.

crofter



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 10 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/north-sea-fisheries-madness-2137103.html

Quote:
Feel compelled to write something on this as I know a bit about it. Discards occur for two reasons -the fish are either undersized or over quota. The known targeting of undersized fish is unforgivable but with red diesel at 45 pence per litre i can assure everyone that fishermen do not target fish they cannot retain if they can avoid it. Large mesh nets (130+mm) are now the norm as not only does it let small fish escape it reduces drag in the net and therefore reduces fuel costs. Over quota discarding is an entirely EU made catastrophe that basically affects fishermen depending on where they come from within the EU. Interestingly enough around the same time as cod became an issue for the EU it was considered hake was also in trouble. The cod recovery plan has been ongoing for almost 7 years whilst the hake recovery plan lasted one until hake made a supposed recovery. Everyone within the industry would sign a sworn affidavit that cod recovered at almost the same time but funnily enough the EU's scientists didn't agree with those that caught cod but did with those that caught hake. Who catches the bulk of the hake - Spain, cod - UK. Go ask a Spaniard how much hake they discarded before they landed home in Vigo. If this sounds far fetched also consider the deep water species blue ling which is one of the totem species of the green team and a species of great importance to France. Go check out the quota recommendation for this species next year as opposed to the species caught by the vast majority of UK fishermen. The industry is being taken to the cleaners for no more reason than it is of no great economic importance to the UK and is expendable in negotiations with our European partners. This becomes a much easier sell to the general public when those who work within the industry are portrayed as rabid lunatics who will not be content until they have plundered the sea of all life. Think about it no fish, no livelihood. We're maybe out in the styx but we're not that thick!

crofter



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 12 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

sean wrote:
crofter wrote:
Despite what most people believe, cod are not endangered, in a year or two even the fisheries scientists will agree with that.


What do you base that on? It may well be true for all I know, but I'd quite like to see some sort of evidence.



Quote:
Cod stocks in the North sea have increased significantly in the past six years, according to a new report.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-18646660

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14846
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 12 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Bodger wrote:
First from Hugh, as he seeks more publicity in his attempt to become the official UK saviour of all things foody.

How could he attempt such a task without publicity?
Is he doing it just for the publicity? Does it matter why he is doing it if he gets results?

Quote:
Secondly from the fishermen as they basically look for ways of landing more fish than they are currently allowed to.

Are they?
I understood the idea was that they aim to catch less fish and land the same amount.
Quote:
If we believe in quotas as a way of helping to save our fisheries, why not allow the fisherman to land and sell the under sized fish but then take that weight away from their total quota ?

Flipping big "if" for a start.
Secondly, the best way to kill a fishery is to start catching immature fish.

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