Libyan crisis, rising oil price, and over-due realism

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Libyan crisis, rising oil price, and over-due realism
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alice

Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 2820

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 12:46 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Its the population of the UK thats not sustainable

That's it, in a nutshell. Right across the board though, not just transport.
But as this thread is about mobility - there needs to be fewer people living closer to where they need to go.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 1:02 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I can imagine myself cycling 8mls to the Abattoir with a few pigs in a bike trailer,and returning with a half ton bag of barley for feeding the other stock.

Home slaughter & what's stopping you keeping a few less pigs & growing your own barley?

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 1:09 pm Post subject:

windyridge wrote:

Cycling in the flat fens is one thing.. cycling in a hilly area is no fun. You quote Dutch cycling.. in a mostly flat country.. can we really compare this to our own country?

What happens to the older and less able population... are they to be stuck indoors all the time... or will they be allowed to keep their cars.

No one method will answer the problems. As with power generation there will have to be a multi pronged plan

I'm fifty & live in a very undulating region.
I don't deny that when I first returned to the pedals I spent a fair amount of time pushing not pedalling, but it doesn't take long for the legs & lungs to get in condition.
A large proportion of our population, for the sake of their own health should be exercising a lot more, there would be a lot fewer clinically obese members of society if they couldn't drive..

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 1:33 pm Post subject:

windyridge wrote:

Cycling in the flat fens is one thing.. cycling in a hilly area is no fun. You quote Dutch cycling.. in a mostly flat country.. can we really compare this to our own country?

Yes. Cycling, as a percentage of transport miles in the Netherlands in the 1970s, was pretty much the same as it is here now. So they invested in (basically pioneered) world class cycle provision.

Cycling in the fens is basically just a bit easier than cycling in hills; but it ain't that hard riding in or near most urban centres in the UK. And I've ridden some pretty damned hilly places.

Quote:

What happens to the older and less able population... are they to be stuck indoors all the time... or will they be allowed to keep their cars.

No one method will answer the problems. As with power generation there will have to be a multi pronged plan

Allowed to keep their cars? Who said anything about compelling anyone to do or not to do anything? And who said anything about there being only one appriach? To advocate one thing as a big part of a solution to any problem does not imply that its all we should do.

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 1:36 pm Post subject:
It's a pointless argument though, there is no choice, we just CANNOT keep using oil at the rate we are.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 1:37 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I was never very good at physics in school,so you will have to enlighten me,

But i know,there is only so many cows you can keep in a field before they starve.

Its the population of the UK thats not sustainable

The population of the whole world is higher than is sustainable. But we're not planning a massive global population cull any time soon.

In the mean time, we're using energy that we can't replace. You can't get energy for free. Without breaking the laws of physics, we have to use less energy; sooner or later, with fossil fuels being irreplaceable we'll have to use less anyway.

We don't have the infrastructure for all electric cars. We haven't got, nor are we likely to have, enough electric generation for that anyway.

Unless the energy to keep motoring comes out of nowhere, continuing as is really isn't an option.

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 1:38 pm Post subject:

Penny Outskirts wrote:

It's a pointless argument though, there is no choice, we just CANNOT keep using oil at the rate we are.

Its that simple really.

How many people, as individuals, are really doing much to reduce their oil use?

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 1:43 pm Post subject:

cab wrote:

Penny Outskirts wrote:

It's a pointless argument though, there is no choice, we just CANNOT keep using oil at the rate we are.

Its that simple really.

How many people, as individuals, are really doing much to reduce their oil use?

I don't suppose any of us will truly do it, unless forced to. I'd be happy to eat roadkill, but Steve says he's not hungry enough.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 2:34 pm Post subject:

Tavascarow wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I can imagine myself cycling 8mls to the Abattoir with a few pigs in a bike trailer,and returning with a half ton bag of barley for feeding the other stock.

Home slaughter & what's stopping you keeping a few less pigs & growing your own barley?

To sell meat,Home slaughter is`nt an option

This is grass growing country not arable,were on a clay-loam,i`ve already reduced my pigs,soon as i get some orders,more will go,not to be replaced,as locals are just not interested in local produced meat,even though its no more expensive than Supermarkets UK produce

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 2:43 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Tavascarow wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

I can imagine myself cycling 8mls to the Abattoir with a few pigs in a bike trailer,and returning with a half ton bag of barley for feeding the other stock.

Home slaughter & what's stopping you keeping a few less pigs & growing your own barley?

But we're talking a different world, where home slaughter would have to be allowed, and the only meat on offer would be local.

Dumnonian

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 2:43 pm Post subject:

Chuffed to see people using the word hypermobility

https://john-adams.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/hypermobilityforRSA.pdf

We've become slaves to the motor vehicle, and the soaring oil price is probably just what most people need to give a kick up the backside and escape the tyranny that wrecking our communities.

I can see the issue with transporting heavy goods, which there's always going to be some demand for. One way to get round that is phasing out the private car and having permits for people, like farmers and tradesmen, who may need to use a motor vehicle sometimes.

Apart from that, as several people have pointed out, the way forward is to redesign our economy so that we are alll operating on a much more local scale.

Simples.

Money-men won't like it though, so it probably won't happen, and they'll continue pushing us to the edge ....

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 2:45 pm Post subject:

Dumnonian wrote:

Money-men won't like it though, so it probably won't happen, and they'll continue pushing us to the edge ....

....... and over it

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 2:48 pm Post subject:
Dumnonian, I agree with all of that, except for your use of the world 'simples'. In the post-oil world, talking meercats should be banned from changing the English language

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 2:56 pm Post subject:
Penny,were already living in a different World to what i was brought up in,where locals bought local. Things maybe different in other area`s,but here,i honestly don`t understand the situation,except they have something against putting money into another locals pocket,in favour of supporting Supermarkets,that goes for other Farmers as well,who are thier own worse enemies.

Dumnonian

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Location: North Devon

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 11 2:57 pm Post subject:
What are you - meerkatist?

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