Anyone have experience of external wall insulation?

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Anyone have experience of external wall insulation?
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stumbling goat

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1990

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 13 7:55 pm Post subject:

Nick wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Personally from my experience in the building trade,i wouldn't bank to much on the 25yr guarantee,i reckon the render will crack way before that.

That's the point of a guarantee.

What is any guarantee worth though?

The guarantee is worthless if the company folds and then re-emerges the following day under a new name and proprietorship.

So, pay for at least £100 of the work with a credit card and then the credit card company are liable for the guarantee and making good any problems.

Worth having done IMHO as when I had cavity wall insulation I noticed the difference straight away.

sg

Edited to add, you may only have to pay £1 on the credit card to make the credit card company liable, check the consumer credit act to make sure.

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s75. Have a read up.

Cathryn

Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19856
Location: Ceredigion

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 13 8:14 pm Post subject:

pollyanna wrote:

Apologies, Ty Gwyn, I realised I had slightly mis-read your post as soon as I replied.

As it happens my neighbour who has a house without cavity walls had it clad some month's ago. The work took just over a weekend and looks good. But whether it really is the solution for stone walls which were designed to 'breathe' is another matter. But then, it must be a better solution than cement render.

I get your point here but feel that quite a lot of the old houses round here were put up to live in, by builders who built them in the way they had learnt. They looked like all the others just like houses built today, in our case with handy local boulders and quite probably beach sand although its hard to be sure as everything is salt soaked. We hadn't considered insulating from the outside and probably won't in the end but it's worth considering.

pollyanna

Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 221

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 13 11:50 am Post subject:
Sadly cement render develops hair-line cracks after a time and lets the wet in. Conversely it also will not let the moisture in the house out. Old stone houses should be rendered in lime mortar which breathes. In the main stone houses were meant to be rendered. The current fashion for exposing the stone is incorrect, unless the stone was especially designed and dressed to be exposed.

roobarb

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 139
Location: Carmarthenshire

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 13 1:04 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Those that have seen these houses insulated with this process,did you notice whether the window sills were changed?

From what we have seen, and the photos of previous work by the installers, shows that new window sills have to be added to allow for the extra depth of the insulation/render. Similarly if there is not enough over-hang from the roof/fascia then a "lip" has to be added at the top of the insulation/render. This appears to be in UPVC, as is the way these days. These are again reasons we were concerned about how this installation will affect the look of the property.

Quote:

In the main stone houses were meant to be rendered.

Couldn't agree more... our neighbours took away their render to expose the stone work, and have had no end of problems with penetrating damp, frost damage to the stone and brick etc. They are now paying someone to re-render the entire house!

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 13 5:23 pm Post subject:

stumbling goat wrote:

Nick wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Personally from my experience in the building trade,i wouldn't bank to much on the 25yr guarantee,i reckon the render will crack way before that.

That's the point of a guarantee.

What is any guarantee worth though?

The guarantee is worthless if the company folds and then re-emerges the following day under a new name and proprietorship.

sg

If it's an 'industry association' (I think that's the right phrase) backed guarantee then it shouldn't matter if a company folds.

https://www.ciga.co.uk/

roobarb

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 139
Location: Carmarthenshire

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 14 10:12 am Post subject:

Thought I would write an update on this posting...we bit the bullet and agreed to have the external insulation done, after having received a full grant.

We're in the middle of getting it done - the insulation (90mm board) went up over 3 days, and now the next team are doing the rendering. We've already noticed a difference to the temperature of the house (although I realise it has been relatively mild and sunny), so the test will come next week when it is forecast to get colder. The house is heating up quicker and warmer in the evening (when we light the woodburners), and is definately retaining the heat overnight. The hallway was 18C when we went to bed, and had dropped to 16C by the morning, usually this would be around 13C. The kitchen, which is probably one of the coldest rooms, was 19C and also dropped to 16C. Both these rooms have outside doors, so are usually the coldest areas in the morning.

Although the render is not finished, I think the house is going to look good after it's all finished. We're getting quite a few enquiries from our neighbours about it, so we're kind of the guinea pigs for the neighbourhood at the moment.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 14 10:48 am Post subject:
Thanks for the post. It's really useful feedback.

Colin & Jan

Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Dover, Kent

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 14 3:19 pm Post subject:

This thread triggered me into action and I have talked to the energy savings trust, EoN (suppliers) and others but have lost the will to live.

Background: 17th century listed farmhouse with back wall and 1 gable end rendered (assuming soft red bricks poor) probably in the 20's - 40s. Front elevation painted brick and part of listing. Back of house and gable end, cold and damp.

I have priced to cover the back and gable end (70m2 approx) with 50mm SW 3000 celotex and cover with silicone based thin coat render. Can't use anymore than 50mm because of brick dentals and roof. The materials cost £1800+ the dreaded and I will do the work myself.

I thought that maybe I might be able to obtain a grant under one the schemes but it appears that unless I am receiving benefits; which I'm not, then I've no chance. And I think I need to polish my tools up as the chap from Eon said that I'd be lucky to get anyone to undertake the work for less than £12k.

roobarb

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 139
Location: Carmarthenshire

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 14 3:51 pm Post subject:

Colin & Jan, I am under the impression that there are now grants available even if you are not on benefits/pensioner etc., which is how we managed to qualify. Ours was through the Energy Savings Trust Wales, but I found this site www.freeinsulation.co.uk/solid-wall-insulation/external-wall/index.html, which covers England. I wonder if your issue is more the fact that you have a listed property, which I assume would mean you would need planning permission to alter the outside of the house. The other crucial thing is that you need to be using solid fuel or electricity to heat your house to get the full grant, even so you could still get a 50% grant.

Given what we have seen the builders do, I don't think it would be beyond a competent DIYer to install it, if you have the right tools/equipment.

Good luck!

Colin & Jan

Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Dover, Kent

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 14 4:34 pm Post subject:

roobarb wrote:

Thanks Roobarb

I didn't even discuss the listed aspect, which I don't think will be an issue as it's already rendered. Our heating/hot water is all wood so hopefully that won't be an issue.

I can do the work OK as I'm a competent plasterer. Thanks for the link, will update if any progress.

Colin

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 14 11:17 am Post subject:

when i was visiting the vets i noticed that quite a few of the brick terraced houses had been done.

the brickwork and dpc of these are rather shabby and most have exfoliating salts even if injected

my feeling is that if the outside is covered in rendered insulation any moisture will have to go inside rather than drying off by evaporation outside.

they look ok with new pebbledash render but i expect there will be a much wetter interior surface as they are not cavity walls

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 14 11:29 am Post subject:
If these brick built terraces are not cavity built,what is their construction? I have seen old brick built extensions built in Rat Trap bond,and even 9in solid of various bonds,but not whole houses.

onemanband

Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 14 12:34 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

If these brick built terraces are not cavity built,what is their construction?
I have seen old brick built extensions built in Rat Trap bond,and even 9in solid of various bonds,but not whole houses.

All the victorian-1940ish terraces round these parts are 9nch solid brick.
They work fine until you double glaze, add central heating, block the fireplaces, add showers, dry clothes inside and cement render the outside.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45521
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 14 12:57 pm Post subject:

9 inch solid ,small,cheap ,victorian bout 1880 ish maybe

the bricks are very porous and spall at a hint of weather and the mortar is more sand than anything else, they flood as well.

most places they were pulled down in the 60's slum clearances but there are quite a few patches of such streets in york .these ones are mostly a mess.

i think they were built for the rail depot workers but they are now a mix of cheapish rented and" a bit done up " often badly by the owner occupiers

our house is a bit later and has a small cavity at the front but the kitchen(originally the scullery)is 9"solid

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 14 2:42 pm Post subject:

onemanband wrote:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

If these brick built terraces are not cavity built,what is their construction?
I have seen old brick built extensions built in Rat Trap bond,and even 9in solid of various bonds,but not whole houses.

That`s interesting,i done my trade as a brickie with a small builder starting 1970,in the Swansea Valley,but to be fair the majority were stone built,with only later extensions added in brickwork,
The early built council houses used the black mortar,i`m not absolutely sure,but think it was ground down waste from the steel works at the time.but they were all cavity built.

Them 9in solid brick terraces did`nt have much reveal`s inside or out with sash window`s,and were the rafters running from the terrace dividers or was the notched method used were they would run from back to front ,but notched into a rafter running from the dividers?as in 9in brickwork they would seem liable to rot at the ends in time.

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