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Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 14 10:00 pm Post subject:
So why have we not got scores of those unemployed set to work building wind turbines?

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 12:06 am Post subject:
Because Coals' the future!

pollyanna

Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 221

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 12:15 am Post subject:
Ty Gwyn, I appreciate the dreadful situation re. lack of jobs. I would not seek to belittle it. The point I was trying to make was the ability to mitigate the despoilation of the industrial landscape.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 12:54 am Post subject:

Hairyloon wrote:

So why have we not got scores of those unemployed set to work building wind turbines?

Because you could`nt get them to work in a Colliery either,

It would spoil their morning TV,

Coal is the future,lol,well its not quite dead World Wide,as we in the UK still use a lot of it,70million ton imported ,produced by foreign labour,
What Steel plants we have in the UK supplied with Foreign Coking Coal.

Can we really have a future without Steel?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 1:13 am Post subject:
Pollyanna, I understand your views on reclamation,driving down the Rhigos into the Rhondda does look green and pleasant,but its not the full picture,and that`s just one Mining Valley,the legacy of the destruction of the coal industry is something that is going to linger for many years to come,whether some people like it or not.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15598

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 7:54 am Post subject:

You can't just get the unemployed to work either building wind turbines or in a colliery. What is always overlooked is that the jobs often unfilled are skilled, and nobody is willing to train the unemployed. Although it worked in Glenrothes converting coalminers to microelectronics worker with lots of money and training thrown at it, just expecting someone to do another job with no training isn't on. Give people training in a proper job and they can then fill that job if it is provided. Make a few hundred or thousand people unemployed in one place with no other job to go to, no training, nothing, and you get mass depression.

Hairyloon

Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 10:08 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Sounds like an excuse to me. There are millions of unemployed and I asked for scores.
There is a skilled work involved in building wind turbines, but there is also gopher work.

The real reason, I think, is that it costs too much to get a design certified to qualify for the Feed In Tariffs, and without that, there is almost no market. I have been informed, from a source that I consider reliable, that the cost of certification is upwards of £80,000. Granted that is peanuts to one of those mega turbines, but what about smaller, domestic ones?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45508
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 10:29 am Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

Where in the US is that aerial view from Dpack,it looks quite desolate and away from habitation?

the dark patch is lake michagan,so north central usa ,i spose the scale is about a thousand miles from side to side of the full photo in the space snap

the arial view im not sure but these and other snaps are in the comments of this article

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/03/west-sussex-landowners-legal-blockade-fracking

i was rather surprised by the topside impact and the number of well heads ,i had thought that the extraction was much more tidy

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45508
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 10:35 am Post subject:
some are wyoming ,a fairly low density of population unlike surrey or most of the uk this is suggested as the acceptable face of rural fracking but transposed to my national park or rural landscape tis still almost as messy as deep mining https://www.swarthmore.edu/Images/academics/student_projects/es_capstone/Drill%20Sites_Habitat%20Fragmentation.jpg

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 12:29 pm Post subject:

Thanks Dpack,that`s what i wanted to know,
The scale as you mention ,1,000 mls across,well that will never be here in the UK ,so again alarmist pictures from the US,

That last photo seems more realistic,and as they have not started fracking shale gas as yet,i presume the disturbed ground area`s are where they have drilled investigatory boreholes,and once up and running would be re-instated around the facility as would be regulated in any planning permission.

To be honest,them land owners down Sussex,unless they own the mineral rights beneath their lands,i don`t believe they have a say in the matter.
And take the number of oil and gas wells that have been fracked in the UK since the 60`s,some of them up Gainsborough way have pipelines under nature reserves supplying power stations in Notts,and there has not been this out roar about them over the years.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45508
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 4:47 pm Post subject:
https://www.bgs.ac.uk/mineralsuk/planning/legislation/mineralOwnership.html so 15 % to the royals and the rest to the treasury of whatever they sell the use of them for

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 14 6:53 pm Post subject:
That was my point,the solicitors them Sussex landowners have will take every penny off them,that fact is they are flogging a dead horse,as your link shows,mineral rights have been licenced for years from the crown or CA in the case of coal.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 14 12:05 am Post subject:
On the radio today,a delegation from the Assembly for Wales paid a visit to the Lancs fracking site at Elswick to access the progress of Quadrilla, Not much noise from Friends of the earth or any of the other No Fracking camps,and this site is on a much larger scale than Balcombe,i wonder why?

12Bore

Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 9089
Location: Paddling in the Mersey

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 14 5:39 pm Post subject:
Geography?

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 14 6:27 pm Post subject:

12Bore wrote:

Geography?

Do you mean that Friends of the earth and the other groups are not interested in area`s North of the M4,Joe?

On a similar aspect,Swansea Bay was looked at for Coal Gasification but that`s gone quiet,and today there`s been announced that a plan for a tidal barrage has been drawn up to generate electricity,no figure`s mentioned for capacity,but it is supposed to include Oyster beds and a water sports facility costing 850 million,but Westminster has to give the go ahead and backing first,don`t hold your breath.

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