Apple varieties?

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Apple varieties?
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VM

Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 14 12:34 am Post subject: Apple varieties?

Been poring over apple varieties.

Want late season, good keepers with good, definite flavour - dessert not cookers but the sort that will work in sauces, tarts as well as for eating.

Have been looking at Reads Nursery and also Mr D'Arcy Fruit Trees as local to Lincolnshire and liked his trees that I saw at a show.

Some varieties I like the look of are:

Ashmead's Kernel,
Allen's Everlasting,
Barnack Beauty (a Lincs heritage variety)
Ribston's Pippin
Queen Cox
Norfolk Royal Russet
D'Arcy Spice

Anyone any experience of any of these? Any views?

We also need things not too challenging to grow, good disease resistance etc, as we are not yet very experienced fruit growers.

Many thanks

Luath

Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 761

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 14 6:51 am Post subject:
Highly recommend Bardsey Island apple, from Adam's Apples. Never tasted an apple like it, for eating and cooking.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 14 9:26 am Post subject:
Have you checked their pollination groups to ensure they cross pollinate each other? You can check that and disease resistance on https://www.orangepippin.com/ and other sites. Personally, I would do as you have done and go for a local heritage variety rather than one from further afield.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45432
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 14 9:50 am Post subject:
D'arcy Spic isn't very nice till it's quite spongy, by which time the texture isn't that attractive. Norfolk Royal Russett isn't terirfic either. Of what Reads and D'Arcy stock I'd go for: Adams Pearmain Ashmeads Kernel Fiesta Limelight Queen Cox St Edmunds Pippin Lord Lambourne Winter Gem

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 14 9:53 am Post subject:

Luath wrote:

Highly recommend Bardsey Island apple, from Adam's Apples. Never tasted an apple like it, for eating and cooking.

Our Bardsey fruited well this year. They were delicious. The tree is just out of sight of Bardsey island itself.

VM

Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 14 10:12 am Post subject:

Thank you everyone for answers on this and the question about cordons. Am tending towards pears as trees and apples as cordons since apples, more than pears, come in so many interesting/tasty looking varieties.

I was going to check cross pollination when narrowed down the field a bit. I've just read that Greensleeves, the apple already here, is a very good pollinator and I am planning to plant two crab apples in the non-kitchen bit of the garden - so am assuming all of these will help.

Ashmead's Kernel seems a clear choice. Will look again at the others people suggest.

I do like the idea of having at least one Lincolnshire heritage variety - have bought a Lincolnshire-bred gage from the East of England Apples & Orchards Project - https://www.applesandorchards.org.uk/.

Lateness and storage are key issues for us. We always found with our Manchester allotments that there was so much fruit to eat and process - soft fruit, plums etc - during July to September that we had little capacity to eat apples and pears until October and later. There are only two of us!

My mother has some astonishingly long-keeping and tasty apples which we have loads of still - but she can't remember the variety -

Also, we found this year, having moved to a rural area, that as well as hedgerow fruit, there were loads of spare apples and plums around from late summer and right through to Xmas.

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 14 4:11 pm Post subject:

My Ashmeads Kernel tree has just been stripped by starlings of the last of its apples, and there are plenty in store. Its the latest dual purpose apple we grow, Cornish Aromatic still has a few fruit on the tree but is not a cooker. Ashmeads is good, but I far prefer Orleans Reinette for flavour, both as a dessert and cooking apple. The few left in store have rotted by now, though, its an Oct-Dec fruit.

Blenheim Orange is similar tasting, and late, but takes a long time to come into bearing- I waited ten years for my first apple, but now its a large tree with hundreds of fruits a season. It might be quicker as a cordon.

I've found that several of the winter storing varieties are earlier here than the books / internet says . . Ribston Pippin flings itself off the trees around October 20th, and Claygate Pearmain has fallen by mid November, no chance of picking it off the tree on Christmas Day as Mr Bunyard suggests.

Most of these late apples are triploids so you have to pay attention to pollination.

VM

Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 14 6:56 pm Post subject:

yummersetter wrote:

Most of these late apples are triploids so you have to pay attention to pollination.

Hi Yummersetter,
That is all really useful, thank you. Re: pollination - how far away can other trees be for pollination? We are in the centre of a village and adjoining several gardens - and there are definitely other apple trees around, but obviously I don't know what types they are.

In our garden we have the established Greensleeves tree, which was here when we moved in, and which I have read is good for pollinating other trees. And I am going to plant two crab apples, which should also help with pollination.

Triploid means they need two different varieties of apple nearby which are in the same or neighbouring pollination groups, is that right?

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 14 9:29 pm Post subject:

It's a bit more complicated . . triploids have three sets of chromosomes, diploids, 'normal' apples, have one set from each parent, Greensleeves is a diploid. The genetic oddity means that triploids have a lot of abnormal seeds and pollen, therefore have low fertility.
That means that triploids won't pollinate each other or a diploid, and with some diploid apples, another diploid, flowering at around the same time, will be needed to pollinate each other. Greensleeves, however, is partially self-fertile, so as long as the flowering period is right, all will be well, but better with another fertile apple. The Orange Pippin site gives a lot of information about the varieties of apples and their genetic characteristcs.
A lot of older apple varieties have been identified as triploids since genetic testing that were previously thought to be diploid - they tend to have extra vitality and often more intense flavour, and despite the low fertility bear good crops. Bramley, Blenheim, Ribston, Ashmeads Kernel and Orleans Reinette are all triploids.
Bees will collect pollen over a wide area, so you should be fine with other apples nearby.

VM

Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 14 11:53 pm Post subject:

Thanks again. I see references to things being triploid or diploid but hadn't quite got all that in my head.

And thanks for reminding me about the Orange Pippin site which I have used before for looking at info on apples - but that was last year and I'd forgotten how useful it is.

I'm sure I'll have to change my plans again when I find that what I want is not available, but at the moment I'm thinking about Ashmead's Kernel and a more modern one called Winter Gem and one called Barnack Beauty which I'd like to try as it is a Lincolnshire variety. According to the Orange Pippin info some of these will pollinate others of them and all should be able to be pollinated by the Greensleeves and crab apples.

We're probably colder here than where you are, being east as well as north-ish. This year, our first season here, the Greensleeves tree was laden with fruit, which was nicer than I was expecting but didn't keep well at all so had to be eaten quickly. That's why I'm looking for other varieties to all be late.

VM

Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 14 11:57 pm Post subject:

Next year I must take one of my mum's apples to someone to identify. She had picked them and had them hanging round in a cold conservatory for some time when we went down at Christmas and we've brought them back and had them hanging round, not properly stored, since we got back and they are still good to eat - not exactly crisp but fine and good flavour.

Very impressive but useless not knowing what it is!

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 14 10:55 pm Post subject:
Can you get someone to graft it onto a rootstock for you? That way it can get on with growing whilst you get on with identifying it. The day can't be far off when you send an apple to Brogdale and they run a dna test and tell you what variety it (probably) is. I've started buying fruit trees from Keepers Nursery, very good quality.

VM

Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 1748
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 14 11:44 pm Post subject:
That's an interesting idea. When do you have to take bits off to graft? I've just put a picture of the apples on my blog, though probably looks like lots of apples this time of year. It's not necessarily likely to be anything especially interesting or very old - just that my mum can't remember what it was when she bought it and it does seem very nice, and crops heavily and lasts well.

tai haku

Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 472

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 14 2:34 pm Post subject:

yummersetter wrote:

Can you get someone to graft it onto a rootstock for you? That way it can get on with growing whilst you get on with identifying it.

The day can't be far off when you send an apple to Brogdale and they run a dna test and tell you what variety it (probably) is.

I've started buying fruit trees from Keepers Nursery, very good quality.

Second all these recommendations - one of the enduring sadnesses of being a fruit tree fanatic in the channel islands is that Keepers can't send stuff here!

yummersetter

Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 14 6:01 pm Post subject:

You taken the scion cutting for grafting in the next month, before the buds start to move, last year's wood from a healthy branch, about 6 inches long and keep it in a cold place before use . . . however, I'm only theoretical, gray_b, OP, Treac. and probably lots of others here have experience. See if there's an apple group nearby with a grafting enthusiast ( I know, the hardest search on google is anything involving the word Apple!).

I'm afraid I don't recognise the apples, have a look on https://www.gardenappleid.co.uk/

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