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madcat

Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 1265
Location: worcester

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 14 7:28 pm Post subject:
Otley Lad , for some unknown reason sheep bring out the protective instinct in me as do cats . No idea why but the concept of "sheep may safely graze" is important to me, it matters.

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4563
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 14 7:47 pm Post subject:

Maybe up in the Northern Badlands things are different,but on the mountains/commons of South Wales any farmer owning /renting land adjoining a common,some even away from the common have these rights, has the right to graze animals according to the acreage of inbye land under his or her ownership/rent,this can be a pro rata of sheep ,cattle or Horse`s/Ponies.

But any common that has a large domestic population on its boundaries always seems to get the sheep worrying cases where ever they are.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 14 10:24 pm Post subject:

I was curious about the upkeep of the moor and whether that was publically funded and I found this article about the anti-blood sports challenge.

My thinking was that if the council stopped the grazing of sheep on the moor, they'd have to start managing the vegetation by mechanical means or walkers wouldn't be able to walk it. But it turns out that the grouse lease was also helping maintain the moor, and providing employment. So before getting upset about both groups also being there, consider what the walkers do for the upkeep and how much more they'd have to do if the sheep & shooters weren't there, and who would pay for that.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 6:50 am Post subject:

madcat wrote:

Otley Lad , for some unknown reason sheep bring out the protective instinct in me as do cats . No idea why but the concept of "sheep may safely graze" is important to me, it matters.

You're absolutely right. Sheep are cool.

But this particular moor has been shared by different groups for years (I even saw a bunch of people dressed in white robes doing a baptism ceremony in one of the becks

).

Walking yesterday we came across a notice in the middle of the moor (we had not seen any before) that told us there were Fenn traps being used in the area. No indication of the approximate areas - so what were we supposed to do?
We looked up Fenn traps when we gothome - as long as they are placed within a cage they are no danger to dogs (and presumably sheep). But of course we don't know this.
These vague signs seem designed to push people to keep away. In a similar mode to the 'Lambing Season - Keep dogs on lead' signs that stay up all year round.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 10:24 am Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

These vague signs seem designed to push people to keep away. In a similar mode to the 'Lambing Season - Keep dogs on lead' signs that stay up all year round.

No, they attmept to push people to keep their dogs on a lead, though I agree that they are vague and should just say 'Dogs must be kept on a lead', not that everyone will take notice but it's a start. At the common we have adders and that doesn't stop people letting their dogs off, so I can't see fenn traps making much of a difference either.

If you just follow the advice on the signs you won't get angry farmers, grouse shooters, walkers or other dogs walkers coming upto you and you shouldn't feel intimidated. If you do get some irrate person approaching you don't respond to them in kind, if you are in the right it is them that are being a knob then reacting in the same way only makes the situation worse and certainly won't resolve conflict.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 10:39 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

OtleyLad wrote:

These vague signs seem designed to push people to keep away. In a similar mode to the 'Lambing Season - Keep dogs on lead' signs that stay up all year round.

I know what you mean about not getting wound up by eejuts.

However, I and many others go to Ilkley Moor (6 miles away) each day precisely because it is a great (and safe) place to let your dog off the lead and stretch its legs. He's well-trained enough not to worry sheep (or grouse) and just lays down on the spot if he encounters any.

If a dog is only ever taken for 'walks' on a lead, its not getting the exercise it needs.

I'd be moor (geddit) than happy if the place were to be divided up somehow into areas exclusively for sheep/wildlife and recreational areas. It's plenty big enough. Just needs some fencing and a bit of thought.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 10:50 am Post subject:

Well, if I were you, rather than joining the blood sports group, I'd muster support from all the other dog walkers and put forward a joint proposal to the council for an area to be fenced off specifically for dogs to be off the lead and draw up a management proposal. You'd probably have to choose your site carefully, as the grouse people have their lease until 2018, and the HLS agreement might need amending, which might involve a loss of revenue to the council, but if this is countered by the group taking on the management of the area, there may be cost savings to the council too, so these would need to be discussed. If the group could set up as a trust that would add more weight and longterm security, but it would all depend upon the size, structure and funding of the group as to how this would be run.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 11:01 am Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

If a dog is only ever taken for 'walks' on a lead, its not getting the exercise it needs.

Nat used to have a German Shepherd when she lived in town, she got a harness for him and took him on the bike with her - that would certainly get around that problem.

Aside from that though, I'm not sure that is anyone else's problem but the dog owners. I have a lot of animals and if I don't have enough land for them to satisfy their needs I either have to rent some more land or cut down on the number of animals. It's my responsibility to cater for my animals needs, not the councils or private landowners. Why should that be any different for dogs?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45492
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 11:02 am Post subject:
like this there are others set up here and there ,it makes lots of sense as everyone wins ,especially muttley who gets to run without dodging bullets

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 11:09 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

like this

there are others set up here and there ,it makes lots of sense as everyone wins ,especially muttley who gets to run without dodging bullets

I didn't know about that, but I'll pass that info on, next time we're at Skipwith.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 11:22 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

like this

there are others set up here and there ,it makes lots of sense as everyone wins ,especially muttley who gets to run without dodging bullets

That looks just the job. I seldom go that way, but I'll try and remember it if I do.

OtleyLad

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 2737
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 11:23 am Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Aside from that though, I'm not sure that is anyone else's problem but the dog owners. I have a lot of animals and if I don't have enough land for them to satisfy their needs I either have to rent some more land or cut down on the number of animals. It's my responsibility to cater for my animals needs, not the councils or private landowners. Why should that be any different for dogs?

We are talking about publicly owned land here.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 11:27 am Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

We are talking about publicly owned land here.

Publicly owned land with rules which you think you can ignore because it doesn't suit you or your lifestyle. Imaging the outrage if someone's excuse for drink driving was "it's a public road".

Round here many public beaches are restricted to no dogs during the summer and virtually everyone obeys those rules so, again, I can't see your problem.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 11:29 am Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

We are talking about publicly owned land here.

That doesn't answer the question - I rent publically owned land, for which I pay a fee, as do the grouse shooters at Ikley, and possibly the commoners.

Shan

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 9075
Location: South Wales

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 14 12:11 pm Post subject:

OtleyLad wrote:

Rob R wrote:

We are talking about publicly owned land here.

Who funds the upkeep of this publicly owned land? From what I can see, the grouse shoots contributes money,the sheep keep the grass in check. What precisely do the dog owners do? I thought that sign you put up about sheep attacked by dogs was quite telling.

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