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Government refuses to release badger cull report
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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 15 6:34 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
much like human tb being mostly a disease of overcrowding and cities.

it does indicate that the best way or reducing it might not be snuffing badgers but could be more use of more extensive systems and good stewardship.


Apart from wetlands...

But where on Earth they found the control for silage feeding I don't know. I don't know anyone exclusively hay feeding these days.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 15 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I can't think what the link with wetlands is either Rob, unless the bacteria can live in wet areas for longer than dry. Badgers do like woodland areas for setts, so I suppose that is one reason that woodland could increase the risk. I suppose that given a choice they also use hedgelines to get around, so it keeps them out of most of the field.

Suspect most of it is to do with more intensive farming practices though.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33026
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 15 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

moist air is better for aerosol transmission of the bacterium hence epidemic hot spots such as damp slums(19th c howarth etc etc ).

titus salt built dry,airy workers housing and had a low tb rate among his workers

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 15 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
moist air is better for aerosol transmission of the bacterium hence epidemic hot spots such as damp slums(19th c howarth etc etc ).

titus salt built dry,airy workers housing and had a low tb rate among his workers
It's very often the subsidiary facts that effect the most.
I'd always assumed dairy herds where more susceptible because of too small a genetic base, & breeding cows with unnaturally high lactations, inducing stress.
I still think those things play their part but something as simple as more maize silage fed means more badgers I hadn't thought.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 15 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

You are probably right Dpack, but I thought Saltaire was built because of an outbreak of some throat disease, possibly called diphtheria these days.

Cattle do better on damper ground though don't they as the grass is more lush and they like longer grass. The general rule round here seemed to be cattle in the valleys and sheep on the hills. Suppose if you have fewer cattle there is less of a problem.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33026
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 15 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

iirc diptheria was the spur but the benefits were broad in health /wellbeing/docility and of course profits as he wasnt constantly replacing trained workers with newbies.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 15 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

True, but at least the workers got good housing, even in they were denied pubs. Bournville is another similar development and I think there are a few others. They have survived quite well, and having seen part of Bournville, they still seem quite pleasant places to live.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 15 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Anecdotal evidence of selenium deficiency increasing BTB outbreaks.
Quote:
In essence the article tells the story of a farmer in the Cotswolds who noticed that after he started growing maize on his farm he started to have TB breakdowns in his herd which he had never had before. He also knew that if you feed cattle with maize you also have to provide supplementary nutrients specifically selenium. He wondered whether the badgers who were also eating the maize had a selenium deficiency too and this in some way this was linked to the transmission of TB on his farm. As a result he started to put out selenium in the fields in small blocks of molasses which the badgers then ate and ….. yes the incidence of TB in his cattle dropped substantially. OK – its all very anecdotal but maybe there is a link between mineral deficiency in badgers and cattle which plays a part in the transmission of TB.

Several things spring to mind, firstly this piece was written 8 years ago, secondly as far as I know DEFRA haven’t followed it up and thirdly if I was a diary farmer and had TB problems I would want to give it a go to see if it made a difference.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 15 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I would agree that sort of thing is worth exploring, although nothing seems to have been done about it. There are also other avenues that haven't been explored, like the link with the increase in deer numbers among others. There seem to be too many people that think badgers should be completely sacrosanct or that they are the only cause of TB to get any balanced investigation.

TB in cattle is too important not to use full scientific investigation, and devastating to the farmers, as well as being expensive for everyone.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 15 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

More anecdotal evidence on Selenium.
Quote:
Following on from yesterday’s blog on organic farmer Dick Roper’s experiences of TB, badgers, selenium and maize I have been investigating the situation further. I have a friend Elliot Haines who is 5th year medical student at the Peninsula Medical School in Exeter and we have been discussing tuberculosis (TB). He has found some interesting papers regarding human health, TB and selenium.

For example a paper states that people with TB have lower selenium levels compared to those who don’t have TB – see here. This paper suggests that people with TB (and HIV) who have been given vitamins and selenium show improvements in their health. Another paper also reports an improvement in patient’s health who are suffering from TB when they are prescribed selenium – see here. Selenium levels is clearly playing a role in human health and TB.

Interestingly the Farmer’s Weekly and farming academics have published articles stating that many areas in the UK are selenium deficient and that this is an issue for agriculture and human health. –

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 15 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

As I don't think selenium is a difficult mineral to add, it might be worth while doing some controlled testing by the sounds of things.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 16 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

A new nature blog: Badger-Cull Roll-Out and Charity Gagging show Government is living in its own Bubble
Quote:
Killing badgers is very, very expensive. Just policing the cull in an area of Dorset last year cost £694000 for 756 badgers – that’s an eye watering £918 per dead badger. Total costs during the Somerset/Gloucestershire pilots were £6775 per badger killed.

Compare this with the National Wildlife Crime Unit’s budget of £278000 a year – a Unit which is under threat of its own cull by Defra.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33026
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 16 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

early reports indicate that tb positives have gone up in some cull areas if this is true

which might explain the gov reluctance to publish their data.

a grand or more a badger to make things worse isnt something anyone wants to try to explain .

there is a tb problem and it does need sorting but it needs sorting effectively .

in some places there are too many badgers which also needs sorting.

the two are not necessarily parts of the same problem.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 16 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Think you have hit the nail on the head there Dpack.

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