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it seems glyphosphate might be history quite soon
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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33026
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 16 4:06 pm    Post subject: it seems glyphosphate might be history quite soon  Reply with quote    

no agreement

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 16 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

While I don't like the overall uses of glyphosate on crops, it has it's uses for specific things, so should be licenced in a sensible way.

That is the trouble with kneejerk reactions; they want a blanket bans on things rather than think about how usage could be sensibly controlled.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33026
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 16 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

the who has it as probable human carcinogen so what is sensible for big scale or domestic use?

iirc a german study had most subjects showing urine concentrations several times the accepted drinking water level.

useful stuff but so was carbon tet shoe cleaner and asbestos lagging

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 16 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

If you have no alternative for things like Japanese knotweed, it should be licenced for certain things. Asulox has been withdrawn for bracken control, and warfarin for squirrel control, and as far as I know there is no alternative to them. Makes control of certain things very difficult, if not impossible.

If small amounts of something are used for specific uses, rather than large amounts being broadcast for all sorts of uses, the amount in the enviromnent will be a lot less.

NorthernMonkeyGirl



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4288
Location: Peeping over your shoulder
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 16 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Was discussing this a bit earlier. I like haing it on hand for the odd job where other things fail. Rather that than spraying an entire arable farm full of roundup-ready crops, and having it drift on the air andinto watercourses, and affect the surface soil from here to Lincoln.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 16 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Restricting sales to the public is a blip & in no way addresses the damage it's causing to the environment. When it's still used on herbicide resistant GM crops, on no till cultivations & as a desiccant prior to harvest on many cereal crops.

A number of MEPs had urine samples taken. I can't remember how many subjects but if IRC all of them had traces of glyphosate in their urine.
These are people who don't work in agriculture & come from all over Europe so it's everywhere.
I read somewhere traces have been found in rainfall in certain parts of the USA.
Stopping sales to the public isn't going to stop this but it is sending a message.

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3043
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 16 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I didn't realise it was that widespread in the environment. Of course, if there's trace amounts everywhere all the world's weeds will be busy evolving resistant strains and it will be useless within ten years anyway...

Last edited by Shane on Sun May 22, 16 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8914

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 16 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

This was something that has always concerned me about developing Roundup resistant strains. You get crosses with other similar plants and suddenly all your weeds are resistant too.

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3043
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 16 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
This was something that has always concerned me about developing Roundup resistant strains. You get crosses with other similar plants and suddenly all your weeds are resistant too.
...except Monsanto's business model was to make their strains infertile, so the farmer has to buy new seed every year

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 16 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Shane wrote:
Mistress Rose wrote:
This was something that has always concerned me about developing Roundup resistant strains. You get crosses with other similar plants and suddenly all your weeds are resistant too.
...except Monsanto's business model was to make their strains infertile, so the farmer has to buy new seed every year


They make it illegal to grow, not infertile. And plants care nothing for threats of litigation.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33026
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 16 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

on a slight tangent their gm boll weevil resistant cotton sets seed and cross fertilises with local strains hence the legal actions against indian peasant farmers for retaining seed.it turned out that M had a flawed case but not before a lot of folk were driven to bankruptcy/suicide.

iirc monsanto's case was flawed in that they didnt have a patent on the f1 retained seed.

back to the plot there are other ways to grow stuff than the glyphosphate method and other ways to eradicate invasive pest species (some less sound than others but less rough on the wider environment)

Last edited by dpack on Sun May 22, 16 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 16 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Green Party MEPs peed off with glyphosate test results.
Quote:
12th May 2016

Green MEPs have today received test results confirming the presence of unsafe levels of the ‘probably carcinogenic’ weedkiller glyphosate in their urine.

Glyphosate is the world’s most widely used herbicide. However, glyphosate does more than just kill weeds. In fact, the World Health organisation confirmed last year that the substance is “probably carcinogenic” to humans.

Jean Lambert, MEP for London, Keith Taylor, MEP for the South East, and Molly Scott Cato, MEP for the South West, were among a group of 48 MEPs that took part in a symbolic urine test ahead of the European Parliament vote last month to oppose the EU Commission’s proposal to relicense the controversial toxic substance until 2031.

The inspiration behind what was labelled the #MEPee test was the results of a recent study in Germany which found that 99.6% of people tested were found to have glyphosate residue in their urine.

The results reveal that every MEP tested has been found to have glyphosate traces in their urine, with the average concentration being 1.73ng/ml. That level is more than 17 times the safe limit for drinking water. The lowest level found among the group was 0.17ng/ml, almost double the safe level.

buzzy



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 3136
Location: In a small wood on the edge of the Huntingdonshire Wolds
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 16 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Tavascarow wrote:
Green Party MEPs peed off with glyphosate test results.
Quote:
12th May 2016

Green MEPs have today received test results confirming the presence of unsafe levels of the ‘probably carcinogenic’ weedkiller glyphosate in their urine.

Glyphosate is the world’s most widely used herbicide. However, glyphosate does more than just kill weeds. In fact, the World Health organisation confirmed last year that the substance is “probably carcinogenic” to humans.

Jean Lambert, MEP for London, Keith Taylor, MEP for the South East, and Molly Scott Cato, MEP for the South West, were among a group of 48 MEPs that took part in a symbolic urine test ahead of the European Parliament vote last month to oppose the EU Commission’s proposal to relicense the controversial toxic substance until 2031.

The inspiration behind what was labelled the #MEPee test was the results of a recent study in Germany which found that 99.6% of people tested were found to have glyphosate residue in their urine.

The results reveal that every MEP tested has been found to have glyphosate traces in their urine, with the average concentration being 1.73ng/ml. That level is more than 17 times the safe limit for drinking water. The lowest level found among the group was 0.17ng/ml, almost double the safe level.


So does that mean that MEPs are dangerously toxic?

How does anyone who doesn't use Glyphosate accumulate such quantities?

Does it mean that people are accumulating Glyphosate, or accumulating Glyphosate residues (whatever they are)?

Are Glyphosate residues as toxic as Glyphosate is alleged to be?

Henry

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 16 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

buzzy wrote:


How does anyone who doesn't use Glyphosate accumulate such quantities?

Does it mean that people are accumulating Glyphosate, or accumulating Glyphosate residues (whatever they are)?

Are Glyphosate residues as toxic as Glyphosate is alleged to be?

Henry

I've always assumed it's from food residues.
For years we where led to believe Glyphosate broke down rapidly when in contact with soil but that's a myth.
So it's been leaching into groundwater for decades.
I think UK farmers have stopped using it as a desiccant on cereal crops but a lot of the cereals used in the UK are imported.
How dangerous is debatable.
My primary concerns are how much damage it's doing to the environment not human health.
Although with cancer rates rising worldwide we should be questioning (IMHO) if the sum total of modern food production isn't playing a part in that rise.

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 4734
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 16 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'm all for organic management practices, but more so I'm for best practices.

While I'd like to see A LOT less glyphosate usage, banning it is a bit overkill

http://www.crediblehulk.org/index.php/2015/06/02/glyphosate-toxicity-looking-past-the-hyperbole-and-sorting-through-the-facts-by-credible-hulk/

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