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Panorama tonight (23/05) Antibiotic Crisis
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Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 16 8:21 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Tavascarow wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Hairyloon wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Ty Gwyn wrote:
The majority of the UK population.


Only if they have a court order preventing you from keeping those animals. The majority of people don't keep them, mainly because they don't want to.

Not allowed at my house, nor at my allotment. It is not always the case, but it's not uncommon.


It's not you the person that's not allowed them, though, more the place. Would you have some if it was allowed?

I would if I could, but I am too often not home. The point though is that many, if not most people are in a place where they cannot keep pigs.


The point is that it is that way because most people don't want to. There are loads of properties near me at which you can keep poultry or pigs, but still very few people do.
Suburban properties?
I'm not talking about a Maoist Green revolution where the masses have to work the land.
& I'm not saying everyone would want to.
But there are a lot who live in shoebox sized houses with postage stamp gardens.
Who if they kept a trio of hens would probably get antisocial complaints from neighbours.
People who haven't got enough money to buy or rent a property in the sticks with a big garden.
They live in areas where councils are selling allotments for development to keep social services afloat & if you put your name on the waiting list you've more chance of dying of old age before you get a 'lotty.
Farmers are struggling as you keep saying.
This is one way they can diversify & help decentralise food production & improve human & environmental health.


If they are on the fringes of a large urban settlement - most farmers aren't. While it is something with merit as a diversification project it's not one that's in high enough demand for anyone except those close to urban areas with adequate access. As a means of addressing antibiotics in farming it's just a distraction from the debate.

Countryfile at the weekend highlighted the problem of increased wages making vegetable production in the UK uneconomic. They also revealed figures that showed most people wanted to support British produce, providing it didn't cost any more. These are huge hurdles that can only push food production further from our shores, but we're still being told to eat our five a day (which, I believe, only 30% of us do at the moment).

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 16 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Personally I think the expectation that food must be so cheap that it's production must be subsidised by holiday cottages, allotments or anything else you care to mention is really missing the point. If you can do something else with your land that makes more money, there isn't actually a need for food production in that equation.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 16 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:


If they are on the fringes of a large urban settlement - most farmers aren't. While it is something with merit as a diversification project it's not one that's in high enough demand for anyone except those close to urban areas with adequate access. As a means of addressing antibiotics in farming it's just a distraction from the debate.
You only have to look at allotment waiting lists to see there is a high demand.
As to proximity to urbanity you are right, but there are few farms in the UK that are more than twenty minutes or half an hours drive from a town & many families make a weekend trip to the countryside to visit farm shops or pick fruit.
I see no difference between that & tending & harvesting their own fruit & vegetables.
Keeping livestock requires more time but a group could work a rota or share.
I've seen the rent private allotments are charging & it's many more times the average council rentals.
Yet they have no problem filling the plots.
There is demand there.
I'm not saying it's the answer to antibiotic over use in farming.
It's a positive addition.
Education of consumers & tighter regulation of antibiotic use in livestock will have a greater effect but that will have to come from the top down & the top still think telling Doctors to prescribe less is the answer whilst ignoring the prime issues.
Encouraging people to grow their own food is part of the education.
But for it to grow the land has to be available.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 16 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
The point is that it is that way because most people don't want to. There are loads of properties near me at which you can keep poultry or pigs, but still very few people do.

Well I cant: they are too far away.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
Rob R wrote:
The point is that it is that way because most people don't want to. There are loads of properties near me at which you can keep poultry or pigs, but still very few people do.

Well I cant: they are too far away.


Well, quite, which is why I can't fathom why we're talking about it. Even if you're 20 mins away it's still potentially an extra 2hrs onto your daily routine to tend pigs or hens, already a marginal activity. As per usual though we've moved into discussing abstract concepts rather than the figures.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Says he who loves to drift into "all we need to do is eat more meat."
Like I said earlier pot & kettle.
Educating consumers to the differences between good & crap food is a part of the journey.
& one that's necessary if we are to move forward.
That I know we agree on.
A beef or sheep farmer of your ilk with sixteen allotments on a spare acre would probably get sixteen new customers buying your sustainably reared meat instead of buying their meat from Tesco.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Tavascarow wrote:
Says he who loves to drift into "all we need to do is eat more meat."
Like I said earlier pot & kettle.


I did not say that.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 3977
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

A beef or sheep farmer of your ilk with sixteen allotments on a spare acre would probably get sixteen new customers buying your sustainably reared meat instead of buying their meat from Tesco.
_________________
That I agree 100% with,if one farm`s close enough to a big town.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
A beef or sheep farmer of your ilk with sixteen allotments on a spare acre would probably get sixteen new customers buying your sustainably reared meat instead of buying their meat from Tesco.
_________________
That I agree 100% with,if one farm`s close enough to a big town.


Me too. If you own the right type of land and can satisfy planning it's a good idea.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33710
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Given that councils are obliged, in theory, to provide allotments, I'd guess they'd welcome anything that relieves the pressure.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14843
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nick wrote:
Given that councils are obliged, in theory, to provide allotments, I'd guess they'd welcome anything that relieves the pressure.

They are only obliged in theory. In practice there is rarely anybody affected by the failure who knows how to enforce the obligation.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33710
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The National Allotment Society are currently pursuing cases on behalf of around 200,000 people on waiting lists. I can't be arsed to look up 'rarely' but then looking stuff up to back up opinions is pretty rare across the board.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nick wrote:
The National Allotment Society are currently pursuing cases on behalf of around 200,000 people on waiting lists. I can't be arsed to look up 'rarely' but then looking stuff up to back up opinions is pretty rare across the board.


If I had a fiver for every time someone tells me what I should be doing based on zero research, I'd have no need to work.

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8405
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Tavascarow wrote:
Says he who loves to drift into "all we need to do is eat more meat."
Like I said earlier pot & kettle.


I did not say that.

I was generalising about your posts in other threads not this one specifically. & it was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
Ty Gwyn wrote:
Tavascarow wrote:

A beef or sheep farmer of your ilk with sixteen allotments on a spare acre would probably get sixteen new customers buying your sustainably reared meat instead of buying their meat from Tesco.

_________________
That I agree 100% with,if one farm`s close enough to a big town.

Especially when it's barbecue season.
Nothing like a cold beer & a good barbecue on the allotment with your mates after a days gardening.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33710
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 16 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

But selling a handful of steaks when it's sunny is not the way to approach that. That's the way to spend a fortune setting up a business and then blaming everyone else when you've two staff burning cash on a rainy bank holiday weekend.

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