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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45377
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 21 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

more agile than yer average bear

sgt.colon



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 7380
Location: Just south of north.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Quote:
Caught playing
? Looked like they were sizing each other up to me.

I was down the allotment yesterday and I saw these two. The top one looked dead and the bottom one was just moving ever so slightly. Do bee's fight? Would they have stung one another?



Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15539

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Honey bees might fight, but only usually if a stranger tries to come in the hive and doesn't submit when challenged. Don't know that bumble bees do, so no idea I am afraid. No pesticide been used in the area?

I saw the first silver washed fritillary butterfly I have definitely seen this season yesterday. It was feeding on blackberry flower.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45377
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

as far as i have seen the various bees do not fight away from the hive or nest
when they are out working they just get on with it and have slightly different niches and no conflict

pesticide, exhaustion/old age, chilly or dehydration are plausible

sometimes they look dead or near dead but recover

sgt.colon



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 7380
Location: Just south of north.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

We have no farms near that would use pesticides. Not sure if anyone on the allotment would use them. I hope not.

I'll see if they are still hung there when I next go down.

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6533
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

My garden had been suffering the herbaceous predations of several porcupines. Night before last I finally saw and dispatched one. Then, in the middle of the night I woke up and investigated a noise I was hearing, wanting to make sure the cat who hadn't come in for the night wasn't out there injured. Turned out to be the sounds of passion from the female half of a mating pair of porcupines!
I had already interrupted them, and find myself standing there with a garden shovel in hand (not knowing what noise I had been approaching) and found myself acting the part of a real villain and permanently interrupting their reproduction.
The male scampered away before I could do anything to him, but he'll be sent to join the other two soon....
By the time I saw them, I think I had already interrupted the moment, but I was surprised to see that his face had been quilled. I don't know if that happens commonly when they mate, or if it was just a byproduct of my intrusion into the moment. Seems like a risky endeavor when your counterpart is so outfitted... But they do seem to be quite successful at it, as they're all over the place!

sgt.colon



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 7380
Location: Just south of north.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Why do you kill them Slim? Are they classed as a pest?

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6533
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

They have been wrecking havoc on my garden. Some people shoot them just because of the damage they do to the trees in their woodlots, but I only care about the ones that keep topping my carrots, beets, broccoli, kale and knocking over my peppers for some reason, despite not eating them.....
I'll try to fence in the garden someday, but that will probably only keep deer out. Porcupines are excellent climbers (I usually only notice them way up in trees when I'm in the woods - wish they'd stay there!)

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45377
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

the quills are a useful resource, no idea if the meat is edible, if they are to be dealt with i would go sniper rather than trenchfight
they seem a bit dangeroos if in extremis

in happier wildlife news, but not by much, the moider scene on the green looked like grin had had a woodie for breakfast

all of them seem a bit cautious at the mo

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45377
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 21 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

can we eat them, yes we can

i vaguely remembered them be decent eating hey ho wildlife.

thinking about the spines, they may be effective as low ballistic energy body armour from some directions, get a big gun, a surprised one might be tricky to pop in a sack

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15539

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 21 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

One of the many things that we fortunately don't encounter in the UK. Do they not have just fur on the underside like hedgehogs? That would give easier access if you did want to skin them.

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6533
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 21 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I looked at that link briefly. Seems overly dramatic about the quills. They're very similar to hedgehogs in regards to where the pointy bits are. And in both cases the pointy bits are keratin, not steel! When s porcupine is dead the quills don't just jump out at you the way that link makes it seem. In fact Mrs slim has requested some of the quills from previous population control efforts, and I simply used needle nose pliers to grab them. It still required some minimal effort to pull them out - though that was in the morning when digging a hole for the carcass, so maybe rigor mortis changes the effort needed?
Long story short, I don't think it would be that difficult to skin one, though I would probably use gloves to get it started.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45377
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 21 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

none of this should be in wildlife but....

i had a few thoughts about peeling them

like getting bristles of a pig, ie hot water to loosen and mechanical(pliers) to extract
or
learn the techniques of plucking, like chooks etc
or
skinning knife along the underneath and peel the whole thing

if they are gamey i would empty them first while warm
pyracanthas gloves would be in my kit along with a sharp knife

ps tiggy is delicious and easy prep , they are safe from me but not always from other perils, if they are not too flat they are good eating.

fluffy me wonders if they could be live trapped and relocated to the boonies?

pps the only thing i understand about porcupines is adding quills to my single dread mad hairdo was rather effective the first time somebody made a mistake

we used to play some dubious venues

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3467
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 21 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Just confirmation from me that you can indeed eat porcupines - they are actually remarkably tasty!

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45377
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 21 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

do beware of the quills
they may not be steel, they are better than that.
a very sharp hard point, profiles, break point,etc

they make an easy entry into flesh or between small bones and then snap off, leaving a couple of inches of end in the wound
that end is shaped to work itself in and resist removal

have a close look at/play with some quills, it soon becomes apparent why tree pigs are a difficult lunch

tiggy spines are only a problem if you bite or slap them, going by removing them from a daft childhood terrier i recon they do not snap into payload and shaft like porcupine ones.

never underestimate well arranged keratin, i am amateur compared to such critters but with a couple of weeks of manicures i can slice open a full beer can with a thumbnail

"its only keratin was the last thing he said before the rhino turned the truck over"

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