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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 21 3:39 pm Post subject: tools, map+

i just bit the bullet and ordered a decent rothenberger torch with gas and a bag to be going on with

for a while i have improvised with butane torches, it is possible to get almost enough temperature but not ideal
the dremel one is ideal for small soldering/annealing etc

i thought about oxy acetylene but not nice in an urban area,
electrolosis+ mek rigs are great for tiny things but useless for bulk heat,
mains gas and pumped air has some merit but most rigs can only manage hard brazing temps, are too big and far too noisy

compromise is map+

i will let you know how i get on

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15943

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 21 9:48 am Post subject:
As you say, oxy-acetylene is not nice in a urban area. Someone down the road from us in a suburban area had one in a garage which caught fire. Lots of people evacuated and an A road closed. Apart from finding artic lorries in odd places on local roads, it was very quiet for about 48 hours.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 21 1:27 pm Post subject:

i really like oxy acetylene, a gas axe is grand for demolition and cutting stuff for fabrication
torch heads come in a range from, demolish a bridge via to weld bean tins to anneal stuff or melt metal for a smallish pour
the oxidation state , temp and total heat delivered by the flame is easy to control

did i mention i really like a gas axe, nice tool

ppe needs consideration

for welding and real soldering they are ace with the no blow nozzle set

i have never played with that new fangled mig tig and caboodle kit
oa and stick will do most things if you do them properly
for "dibnah tasks" they are a very good combo

ps health and safety, i saw a tv program where the very skilled goldsmith was making traditional style items on the 14th floor of a tower block in south america, guess the heat source

pps me burning a tank of o2 in 20 mins via a big nozzle gas axe and loads of sparking spelter might be a step too far for the locals

one of the more crazy tools i have used but oddly not even in the top 5 most scary

Last edited by dpack on Sun Jul 25, 21 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 21 1:33 pm Post subject:
ps they are quite expensive to run.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15943

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 21 7:12 am Post subject:

Another story I remember from school days was that in the distant past, some public buildings used acetylene as a lighting source. It was made by dripping water onto calcium carbide and stored in a tank under low pressure. It provided a very good light before electricity was available in most rural communities. Unfortunately it was also very explosive, and add to that most village halls were wooden, it was a rather difficult combination. My chemistry teacher told us that he once had to give a talk at a hall like that, and was extremely nervous all evening because of the risk. Luckily all passed without incident, and he lived to tell us about it years later.

My sort of welding was with thousandth of an inch diameter or less wire using a mixture of pressure and ultrasonics to make the weld. It involved threading the wire through the eye of a needle like tool that you couldn't see using a pair of fine tweezers. A steady hand was required.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 21 7:54 am Post subject:
micro litre pipettes are amusing, hold the thing is a challenge, get it to do a clean slurp of the standard volume is even more fun re hot metal, my smallest stuff is electronic components and jewellery, big is cutting and using an o2 cylinder every 20 mins(plenty of sparks) they barely had time to ice up before being changed

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8889
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 21 1:13 pm Post subject:
Sounds like the fun things they got up to in the annual Faraday lectures that alternated between Southampton and Portsmouth Plenty of stinks, bangs and flashes

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 21 6:13 pm Post subject:

they are glass tubes, maybe 20mm long and depending on how much they are supposed to slurp by surface tension of different diameters, the smallest can be almost as thin as a human hair

lose the sample kit while "uncorking" the stuff is easy to do

snap the tube in your fingers is not too difficult

i do not like unexpected stinks, flashes or bangs

re that, picture the scene, BA, full acid suit, organic stuff in 105 oleum at 2 degrees C
this has not been tried before
start adding NAPS
keep temp under 3 degrees C(it usually leads to a longer life)

if it fumes, run
if it starts getting hot, run
if it goes bang, hope most of it went through the sacrificial lid to the fume chamber and not through the window into the lab

gulp

playing with torches and hot metal is fairly predictable

the map+ is for smallish non ferrous metal work and assorted "soldering", nearly all of that is fairly safe if you don't eat flux or pick up hot things, the backyard gold refining alchemy might have a few h and s issues but hey ho

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15943

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 21 7:16 am Post subject:

Gz, did you go to the Faraday lectures? They were run by the IEE, and some of them were quite good. When I was 14 we had one on computers, which were huge great things taking up a full room at the time, and I had to try to explain to my mother and an older women about binary. They had never heard of it. and I had only done a bit of it a school using railway sidings as the explanation. Add to that that neither of them had had to do any maths beyond 'elementary', which meant being able to do household accounts, and I am not sure they ever really got the hang of it.

I think the best one was by Professor Braithwaite and involved some glases full of water and a sumuri sword. There was another on gyros which was fun, and one with very early automatic number and letter recognition where they tried to read my fathers writing. I seem to recall it failed, mainly because even he couldn't read it sometimes.

The Royal Society lectures on TV are sometimes pretty exiting too.

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8889
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Tue Jul 27, 21 9:37 am Post subject:
I used to go every year with my dad. That was about 1962-71 The year they had the medical one they had to stop the lecture and ask if there was a doctor in the house...people passing out squeamish Of course no problems with the same lecture and a full house of schoolkids

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15943

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 21 7:47 am Post subject:

I must have gone to a lot of those, but don't remember the medical one. My father was the secretary of the local section, so he had to arrange things for the lecturers for a few years. As a result I gave the vote of thanks at the schools session that year. They gave me a book token for my efforts and a thing to stick inside to commemorate it. I still have the book; 'Man and the chemical elements' which I still occasionally read, as it is rather good. We tend to call it 'Man and the mechanical elephants' in the family.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jul 28, 21 3:23 pm Post subject:
intructions read and probably understood the torch is well built, the cylinders are very solid for single use ones, both are good things torch and can are a bit unwieldy so the 1.5m pipe arrives tomorrow, i can improvise a can stand then i will play

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 21 5:01 am Post subject:

pipe arrived, it seems well-made(it should be for that price

)and the fitting to the torch went on nicely(as well as high pressure stuff)

today i will try popping the other end on a cylinder and fire it up

they call it mapp, but the actual fuel mix has changed a few times, for various reasons, the main fuel component with this brand of cans is propylene and propane with a few odds and ends for safety and performance, made for the torch, so it should work.

maybe i am odd for a bloke in that i read the instructions and try to understand the processes involved and eyeball the thing carefully for faults before i try it, try first time for real when the result matters seems very bold and unwise.

if plumbers can use them without too many insurance claims and inquests and i follow the instructions this thing should be ok.
in many ways it is much safer than the "DIY" type butane torches and compared to a petrol blowlamp

i had the family one of those blowing from nozzle and filling hole when i was sweating a wiped lead joint in the back of a kitchen unit, interesting, i did get it outside and chucked it a safe distance to do its thing, it did not bang, but it was rather blazey

having quite a bit of practice at reading never as a place to start i am quite cautious with fuels

my punk party pyrotechnics are legendary in some places and involve a lot of "never" with any of the variety of things available at a punk party,
traffic cone high jump is a good game

it would be a fun one for the olympics, a bit of brain, plenty of coordination and if needs be a sudden short sprint and dive

it is a competitive duet, each is the other one's assistant and safety officer, highest cone wins
that i one reason i am careful with fuel air potential

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15943

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 21 7:25 am Post subject:

I wish more people would read the instructions, and that they were written in clear English, with someone who doesn't know how to use the thing being the Guinea pig. Writing it if you know how it works, or a translation from the Japanese through German doesn't work so well.

When I was writing instructions for equipment for use by people that were supposed to have some idea, I always started with ' ensure the equipment is plugged into the mains and turned on'. As the engineer it saved me several visits to the clean room having had a call saying 'my x won't work', me;'in what way', them; 'well it just won't work'. Me 'is it plugged in and turned on?' them 'oh no. It isn't turned on.'

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46184
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 21 8:33 am Post subject:

i might still have the instructions from the "pissa pan" which included "place thumb over intimate orifice while cleaning or the unit may be out of service or on fire"
the rest of it is pretty good as well

i never plugged it in

with high tech stuff i prefer the dummies guide to or a good book in similar style to the"user manual"
if i have to take it to bits, the tech manual helps a lot
improvise from what you know if needs be, phone a friend if you can

the is it plugged in/on? is always good for a giggle

refit the guards, then reconnect the isolator switch is important advice etc.

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