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jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28158
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 6:24 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Yep ev has crazy potential

When you consider most EVs are probably running on under 200wh/kg.
You have to think where will that get to in a few years?
It's not something that multiplies up indefinitely, but I'd say 400wh/kg is practically certain and 600wh/kg is imaginable.
The latter would give cars 350 miles range in a battery under half the weight and size and at a fraction of the cost and environmental impact.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15710

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 7:49 am Post subject:

I can see your problem Nicky. We tend to do the same. By normal standards we do very few miles in our car or the trucks, but the trucks work hard for their living spending quite a lot of time off road and carrying loads. I think on past experience our present car may almost see out our driving days as I wouldn't think we have more than about 20 years more.

One day it might be worth converting the trucks to electric, but at present those sorts of prices wouldn't make it economic. Yes, I can see electric does seem the way to go at the moment although there are still a lot of problems with electricity supply at present, but think even without artificial barriers it will be a long haul.

The EU are trying to stop Chinese subsidies undermining their own EV production as far as I can see. Perhaps the West is slow in the uptake, but relying on China, which could cut supplies at any time is not sensible.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9742
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 10:17 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

The EU are trying to stop Chinese subsidies undermining their own EV production as far as I can see. Perhaps the West is slow in the uptake, but relying on China, which could cut supplies at any time is not sensible.

relying on any one or two countries is never sensible

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9742
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 10:18 am Post subject:
so is PHEV a good compromise? if EV don't fit your needs atm

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45795
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 10:46 am Post subject:

reliance on a few countries for energy has given china a good reason to go ev and renewable

plus they did not have much of an ice car industry to resist(wrong sort of factories for easy conversion to making evs and lots of expensive kit for making ice ones)
mass ev transport makes lots of sense as they transform to a car culture

a basic is energy, china is short on gas, oil and coal, plenty of rivers and sunshine and wind, going leccy makes sense for everything

some cities are big enough with the right topography to be uninhabitable if everyone drove ice vehicles, some was more than enough in some places

ford did it in the early 20th, the china ev and leccy firms are doing it now

another aspect of the tarrif thing is little to do with protecting local production, it is to reduce ev take up on behalf of the fossil donors

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45506
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 1:34 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

so is PHEV a good compromise? if EV don't fit your needs atm

Depends, as far as I know from what you've described you don't do many miles and you don't really do many long trips. If that's the case then potentially petrol is better than PHEV, with a PHEV you're carrying around extra weight and complexity.

Diesel is going to be by far the worst for your situation

I'd be happy to talk it through on the phone if you want.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45506
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 1:37 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

tahir wrote:

I think whoever buys my car when I get rid of it will be buying a solid reliable car. It's 2 years old, I haven't seen a drop in range and nothings gone wrong with it so far.

I can't see why you would want to sell it on rather than keep it then.

Because I do quite a lot of miles and I need to be able to rely on my car. I don't chop and change that much but 5 years is about what I'd keep it for.

Quote:

You do have to be careful when buying an older EV at the moment, but that is improving because most of the real crap ones will end up out of the market, the newer ones are better, there are more firms about to repair/replace battery packs.

yes, hopefully a situation that just gets better. Sadly, as always with adopting new technology, some people will lose money by making the wrong decision.

Yes, but there's plenty of websites with knowledgeable users that can help you through

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45506
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 1:41 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

tahir wrote:

I think whoever buys my car when I get rid of it will be buying a solid reliable car. It's 2 years old, I haven't seen a drop in range and nothings gone wrong with it so far.

I can't see why you would want to sell it on rather than keep it then.

Because I do quite a lot of miles and I need to be able to rely on my car. I don't chop and change that much but 5 years is about what I'd keep it for.

Just to add we have an employee who also has a company EV, she has a Kia, mine is a Cupra. She does more miles than me and just like me it's all been trouble free and no noticeable drop in range yet (hers is 3 months older than mine). My brother has an 8 year old Tesla which is a proper pile of shit, hardly any range left now, although new ones are supposed to be much better

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9742
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 2:37 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

so is PHEV a good compromise? if EV don't fit your needs atm

that's kind of you - I'm not at the point of buying, just trying to keep up with it all so I am informed when I next make a car purchase. I might take you up on that if I suddenly find myself in that position sooner than anticipated.

I have been avoiding diesel for some time now, because of the not many miles thing. and yeh, I can see PHEV is sort of double trouble... probably not the right thing for me.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9742
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 2:40 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

tahir wrote:

I think whoever buys my car when I get rid of it will be buying a solid reliable car. It's 2 years old, I haven't seen a drop in range and nothings gone wrong with it so far.

I can't see why you would want to sell it on rather than keep it then.

Because I do quite a lot of miles and I need to be able to rely on my car. I don't chop and change that much but 5 years is about what I'd keep it for.

I totally understand the need for a reliable vehicle, I must have one for a whole raft of reasons different to yours.
I guess I am pondering what you feel will become potentially unreliable? is it the range?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45506
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 3:57 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

I guess I am pondering what you feel will become potentially unreliable? is it the range?

Cars, of any type become more unreliable with age, mechanical components are subject to wear, I think I'd rather have the comfort of a newer vehicle after 5 years. My wife's car which does much less mileage will probably be kept for 10

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45506
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 4:00 pm Post subject:
The only major issue that my brothers had with his Tesla is the range, but that started dropping very early on, like I say mine and my work colleagues are both 2+ years old and have done decent mileage and have seen no drop

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45795
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 24 5:02 pm Post subject:
all machines degrade with use, a bit used or old but fixable easily, either can work modern batteries are far better than a decade or less ago that covers toothbrushes to trucks and grid storage what in the SH market has reliable batteries and bits is a research project without the massive tariff some of the new Chinese ones look plausible for a long term keeper from new

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28158
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 24 6:13 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

My brother has an 8 year old Tesla which is a proper pile of shit, hardly any range left now, although new ones are supposed to be much better

Don't Teslas have an 8 year battery warranty?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45506
Location: Essex

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 24 7:21 am Post subject:

jema wrote:

Don't Teslas have an 8 year battery warranty?

Yep, to be honest I never got involved to find out what exactly his issues were and what Teslas response was. He's got Model S P85 which is supposed to have 250 miles, its now around 100. Certainly his car was made like shit, bits of trim falling off door handles not working etc. By all accounts German and Chinese made cars are much better than US ones and they've been at the cutting edge of battery development (till the Chinese got serious) so I'd imagine their current batteries are much better.

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