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Behemoth

4 bedroom home getting an 'E' Energy rating.

Is it me or is this just a tick box evercise and there is no actual measurement of the 'energy perfomance' of a house. For instance my old terrace doesn't have cavity wall insulation on the front or back walls (is it worth it?) but does have two lovely insultaing houses on either side. I'm assuming it would still fail the cavity tick box like a detached new build.

Monday 10 September 2007 10:44
Communities and Local Government (National)

Green findings - Energy Performance Certificates and Home Information Packs


Average four bedroom homes are getting an 'E' energy rating, according to a survey from the introduction of Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs) and Home Information Packs (HIPs).

New information six weeks after the launch of EPCs and HIPs, shows that average four bedroom homes and above could save hundreds of pounds off heating, lighting, and water bills.

Most homes are receiving an 'E' rating in their EPCs on the A-G scale, but could this could potentially rise to a 'C' if consumers undertake measures recommended in the certificates, such as loft and cavity wall insulation.

The Government is today extending EPCs and HIPs to three bedroom homes so more buyers will get the same information to cut carbon emissions and reduce fuel bills.

The early findings come from a snapshot survey of energy assessors and EPCs provided since the launch of HIPs, which show average 4 bedroom homes are being rated 'E' and could typically save 180 on heating, 60 on lighting and 30 on hot water bills, a year.

The top 5 recommendations given by assessors for improving energy efficiency have been: cavity wall insulation, changing to low energy lighting, putting thermostatic valves on radiators, loft insulation, and double glazing.

The introduction HIPs is already starting to reduce costs and improve transparency in the housing market. More than 85 local authorities have reduced their search costs, in some cases by more than 100.

The average pack is taking around 5 days to compile, with major estate agents charging in the region of 300 plus VAT for a HIP, on an upfront or deferred basis - 200 to 250 of which is already paid under the current system.

Communities Minister Iain Wright said:

"Families buying four bedroom homes are getting clear information which shows how they can save hundreds of pounds on their fuel bills and cut carbon emissions too. It is important that this should be available for people buying three bedroom homes as well."

Typical 'green grants' of 100 to 300 for energy saving improvements like loft insulation are available to many home owners from energy suppliers as part of their legal obligations introduced by government to improve energy efficiency. Consumers can now access details of green grants and offers by tapping in their postcode on the Energy Saving Trust's website.

Energy suppliers are also providing direct information about grants to home buyers when they sign up to an energy contract.

Notes to Editors

1. EPCs and HIPs were introduced for four bedroom homes and above on August 1, and are today being rolled out to three bedroom homes. A further announcement on rolling out the packs to the rest of the market will be made in due course. Our key criteria will be ensuring a smooth implementation and that the necessary energy assessors, both nationally and regionally, are in place.

Public Enquiries: 020 7944 4400;
News Releases: http://www.communities.gov.uk

Client ref 167
JB

IIRC HIPS were recently criticised because not only was it just a box ticking exercise but many of the people carrying out the box ticking were getting it wrong. If it wasn't immediately visible it didn't get ticked while if it was visible but didn't work it did get ticked. So if you have cavity wall insulation but they can't see it your house fails, but if you have broken solar panels your house passes.
Jonnyboy

How can they ever 'see' cavity wall insulation?
JB

Jonnyboy wrote:
How can they ever 'see' cavity wall insulation?


You can see the injection holes in the outside walls if it has been added after the event and from the loft space you may be able to see the top of the insulating material.
Behemoth

I have no loft access but I know there's insulated plaster board thoughout the attic and a foot of insulation on top of that.

Presumably you'd also have some receipts/guarentee for the cavity insulation.
bagpuss

we had a questionaire through the door from the energy saving trust which does ask things like if you are a terrace your position on the terrace so hopefully it will take into account things like that
Treacodactyl

JB wrote:
Jonnyboy wrote:
How can they ever 'see' cavity wall insulation?


You can see the injection holes in the outside walls if it has been added after the event and from the loft space you may be able to see the top of the insulating material.


If it's not been done with care you can also see it falling out of the air bricks. Laughing

Surely they take the installation certificate as evidence? Many parts of HIPs do seem like a waste of time and money. I gather you can't do the energy survey and some other bits yourself which seems daft. I'm not sure what it adds over someone asking you the questions, for example I can see if a house has double glazing, loft insulation and what the boiler is etc...
JB

Treacodactyl wrote:
Surely they take the installation certificate as evidence?


But if you don't have the certificate?

Treacodactyl wrote:
Many parts of HIPs do seem like a waste of time and money. I gather you can't do the energy survey and some other bits yourself which seems daft. I'm not sure what it adds over someone asking you the questions, for example I can see if a house has double glazing, loft insulation and what the boiler is etc...


You can't do that! You haven't been trained to look at double glazing! More seriously it does seem another government measure based on the assumption that government wishes to treat everyone in the country like an idiot and they b****y well get away with it.
Helen_A

This house was given a D rating by the surveyor. *but* its a mid 70's built mid terrace and there is cavity insulation even though the surveyor marked it as not *because* he hadn't seen a certificate or evidence of it. Talking to the neighbours it seems that the whole row of houses cooperated and had it done together in 1981, hence there are only 4 holes for the whole terrace (in the houses at either end of the 4). Insulation in the roof isn't great, but we are finding it rather too hot to live in atm even with the windows open and are now speculating that the solar gain is actually p.d.g. and that isn't even taken into account in the 'test'.

Oh - and he looked at the electricity bills of the current occupants to gauge that part of the rating... and having been here a couple of weeks now we are using 10% of what they did even though we still have light fittings to change out for sensible ones etc still, so I'm now boggling at what on earth they were doing with it all!

Oh - and according to the 'test' the lowest rating we will even be able to get this house down to is a C because it is a 3 bed.... so E for a 4 bed starts to look not too bad at all...

Helen_A
JB

The more I hear about HIPS it sounds like just another government scheme to interfere in places that they have no benefit and charge you more money for doing nothing of any value.
Treacodactyl

JB wrote:
You can't do that! You haven't been trained to look at double glazing! More seriously it does seem another government measure based on the assumption that government wishes to treat everyone in the country like an idiot and they b****y well get away with it.


I dare say when the time comes to sell I'll do some reading up and prepare everything and tell the HIP surveyor how to do their job correctly. Just like I've had to do with several other people who are supposed to be professionally qualified.
RichardW

Helen_A wrote:
hence there are only 4 holes for the whole terrace (in the houses at either end of the 4).

Helen_A


Thats odd as we had our last houses (had both halfs of a semi detached block) done (one at a time) & it required holes every 6 foot ish & between windows & doors on every wall.


justme
Vanessa

Helen_A wrote:

Oh - and he looked at the electricity bills of the current occupants to gauge that part of the rating... and having been here a couple of weeks now we are using 10% of what they did even though we still have light fittings to change out for sensible ones etc still, so I'm now boggling at what on earth they were doing with it all!

Helen_A


Probably had the tumble drier going 7 days a week Rolling Eyes
Armchair

Justme wrote:
Helen_A wrote:
hence there are only 4 holes for the whole terrace (in the houses at either end of the 4).

Helen_A


Thats odd as we had our last houses (had both halfs of a semi detached block) done (one at a time) & it required holes every 6 foot ish & between windows & doors on every wall.


justme


You would need regular holes other wise the insulation would 'bunch' up and not fill the cavity.
James

Justme wrote:
Helen_A wrote:
hence there are only 4 holes for the whole terrace (in the houses at either end of the 4).

Helen_A


Thats odd as we had our last houses (had both halfs of a semi detached block) done (one at a time) & it required holes every 6 foot ish & between windows & doors on every wall.


justme


yeh, we've just had our house done last week and there are holes every couple of metres or so. Apparently on the low level, they create a triangle of fluff, then on the next level they inject between the original injection points to create diamonds that infill the first triangles...etc... and injection points beneath each window. Just in time for the first frost....

But this is with dry fluffy stuff....maybe helens was with a liquid foam?
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