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NorthernMonkeyGirl

Adventures in grafting

I've been noodling about in the orchard / forest garden nearby, and come away with some clippings to try grafting. I want a branch of a different variety on each of my trees to ensure pollination. The fact that nothing in the orchard was labelled makes this more interesting!

I went for bud grafts, and it seemed very simple so now I'm waiting to see what I've done wrong...
Hairyloon

Is this a good time of year for it?
Slim

I believe for bud grafting you typically want to do it in the early spring when the bark slips easily.

But you never know what will take, so perhaps there will be a lucky one or two! And a good practice run for next spring if they don't take.
NorthernMonkeyGirl

Ye olde RHS book said "midsummer" so I'm not stupidly far off, especially given weather.

I did daub the spare stems with rooting powder to try cuttings too Laughing
Slim

I haven't really done any myself, except a citrus in a class once, and that was early spring, but looking it up now I see that you're dead on and I was wrong Very Happy

Keep us posted on the progress!
NorthernMonkeyGirl

The buds are all sprouting, and I'm trying to decide whether this is from any sort of stored energy or whether they have taken so quickly??
Slim

They should have some stored energy, but all of the cells for the new leaves have already been made (in preparation for next year). The cells sort of get "inflated" with water pressure, which wouldn't happen if there wasn't some flow through from the stem, so congrats! Sounds like early indications of probable success!
NorthernMonkeyGirl

It surely can't be that simple!

Also I'll end up with far too many if they ALL take Laughing

Fingers crossed though. When do you think I'll know, and when can I take off the supporting tape/wrap?
Slim

If you used something like parafilm (my preference) than you can just leave it on for the plant to force off as it grows.

Notice that I said an early indicator, not a proof positive! I'd leave them unmolested for at least a couple weeks before poking about to see which have really made it. And I wouldn't worry about having too many until you know which have made it through winter!
Hairyloon

If you used something like parafilm (my preference) than you can just leave it on for the plant to force off as it grows.

Is parafilm parafilm or are there different types?
Slim

It looks like it gets marketed differently than the laboratory stuff, but I don't know that it is any different..... dontknow

http://www.fruitmentor.com/grafting-tape-parafilm-vinyl-tape
NorthernMonkeyGirl

(I may have used sticky tape)

Embarassed
Mistress Rose

Some sticky tapes are quite flexible and will probably do the job all right. It is the ones that won't stretch and form that might not work. Sounds as if yours has worked at present anyway.
Hairyloon

(I may have used sticky tape)


Ordinary stick tape will probably get water behind it and fall off. As long as that happens after the graft has taken, it should be fine.
Slim

When y'all say sticky tape, is that the same thing that we would call Scotch tape, or "invisible tape"? Hairyloon

When y'all say sticky tape, is that the same thing that we would call Scotch tape, or "invisible tape"?

Ah, "sticky tape" covers all manner of things. I'd taken it to mean sellotape (tm?) or similar.
Scotch tape is something slightly different.
NorthernMonkeyGirl

Yes, sellotape. Old enough to be a bit less sticky but still quite sticky. sean

Sellotape degrades on it's own given time so you should be fine I think.
@HL I *think* that Scotch tape in the US is pretty much like Sellotape here in that it's the same sort of stuff just a different brand name has become generic IYSWIM.
Mistress Rose

Yes, they are both trade names. I was once confused by a special tape we used at work made by the Minnesota Mining and Mineral Company. Turned out we usually call it 3M. Very Happy Slim

I thought the old "Scotch = cheap" joke was transAtlantic anyway, isn't it? Laughing (that's where the name for the tape came from)

My grandfather always called people watching "Scotch movies"
Mistress Rose

Yes, we can get Scotch tape too, but the most popular brand, and therefore the name most often used in the UK is Sellotape. NorthernMonkeyGirl

Some of the "ehhh, worth a go" grafts have dried up already, the others still look suspiciously green.
Also someone was being "helpful" and cleared away the pot of cuttings. Oh well! Plenty of source material.
Hairyloon

I got some parafilm tape today... dpack

DOWNSIZER BINGO

Laughing

it still didn’t find me a decent source of a roll or two of parafilm grafting tape Laughing
Hairyloon

Ye olde RHS book said "midsummer" so I'm not stupidly far off, especially given weather.
Thanks for the reminder: I'd got my head stuck in the idea that it was a spring thing.
Maybe that's apples?
dpack

as far as i can gather different techniques are suitable at different times of year and there is something for most of the time which does mean if you have rootstocks readily available ( ha ha ha ha ) a few bits of a donor can be collected at any time

now about a uk source of genuine parafilm grafting tape.....
NorthernMonkeyGirl

My experiments failed delightfully Mistress Rose

NMG, is a 'delightful' failure a better failure than a 'complete' one? Laughing gregotyn

If at first you don't etc.-give it another try! buzzy

Sellotape degrades on it's own given time so you should be fine I think.
@HL I *think* that Scotch tape in the US is pretty much like Sellotape here in that it's the same sort of stuff just a different brand name has become generic IYSWIM.

Depends on the conditions. Sometimes Sellotape just goes very hard. The adhesive degrades and does horrible things to paper.

Henry
Hairyloon

as far as i can gather different techniques are suitable at different times of year...

So what type of tecnique/plants should we be grafting now?
Has anyone here tried grafting pear onto hawthorn? I'm told it can be done...

What else can graft onto what? I know apples to apples and plums to plums, but is there something a bit odd like peach onto cherry? I recall at least one other combination that surprised me.
dpack

cucumber onto pumpkin. not very odd, increases crop and reduces salt intolerance so extra feeding helps rather than hinders.

adding a second pumpkin plant to supplement the first for super giant specimen growing. sneaky but effective.

i will get back to you re fruit trees when i have done more reading.
Slim

UK parafilm: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heathrow-Scientific-HD234526A-Moisture-Transparent/dp/B0061OXR6S/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1528067026&sr=8-6&keywords=parafilm

I'm sure it's not all on all, but I think many stone fruit can be squished together: https://www.cnet.com/news/beautiful-tree-grows-over-40-kinds-of-fruit/
dpack

thanks, i dont know why i did not see that on amazon Embarassed Slim

It's a bit spendy still....
probably cheaper to buy through someone who already gets a discount for their lab supplies

For those who've never used parafilm before, remember that it stretches it to many times it's size, so "a dab'll do ya".
dpack

first graft taken and is now putting out leaves Cool

the two that were a fortnight later might still be settling and uniting ( they might not )
dpack

cancel that , the first graft was dead and the rootstock was putting out leaves from beneath the deceased Embarassed Slim

d'oh! dpack

on the bright side it is a fresh green shoot for a rooting experiment Laughing Mistress Rose

That's a pity. Have another go at the right time of year. dpack

a 4 yr old mm111 rootstock in a pot will become a mother plant for greenwood shoots if fairly savagely pruned and then nursed and pampered Cool

getting 1 0f 10 from seaweed based rooting powder using semi hardwood cuttings in late spring. educational.

i have 3 small batches of various types of cuttings in 200mg/l I3BA and cut flower feed mix.
in 24 hrs they will get potted on into sterile cutting compost
they are in a propagator.

it is a mid range concentration for slowish soak and the only variable is the type of stick in the splosh. cunning Wink

biopunk horticulture is fun.

as the mothers can be persuaded to produce nice green shoots i recon i could go micro culture if needs be.
or root em from being earthed up if there is a suitable location .

a free supply of " new " rootstocks seems like a good idea if adventures in grafting "unknown" old apples might happen .

the skill is transferable if it doesn’t Laughing
Hairyloon

So what sort of grafting technique is best for this time of year?
I have cherries, plums, apples and pears to play with...
dpack

roostock preparation ready for dormant period styles. Wink

the cuttings are all planted, the youngest shoots look a bit chemically challenged but the older and semi hardwood ones look quite perky so far.
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