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camera for bee, wasp and hoverfly id?

what it says, what do i need.

my eos 35mm has point of view electrics like modern fighter planes, ie look at it through the view finder and 0.2 seconds later it is in focus and properly exposed for pressing the button if you set everything for the general technicals of what you want to snap.

35mm film is rather expensive and time consuming and nice but if i wanted a wet system for pretty i would go full plate so digital seems sensible for what i need.

fast, hi res and cheap to run ( decent upfront budget )

grrr i need a new camera, or ace i can get a new camera, tis hard to decide

i recon pov is my best bet to get good id snaps of small, movable beasties that might be at the end of my nose or ten feet away

any suggestions for kit? i like canon stuff but i have liked a biscuit tin with a hole at times and would be up for a top end camera of a different stable if it was strong , had ace lenses and did what i need.

Mr Shan suggests a Canon D80. We have one plus various lenses. Phenomenal camera. If you would like, send me a PM & we can set up a phone call.

I'm not sure what your budget is because that's quite extensive with cameras? send me a PM.

I've got an 80D as well - very, very capable stills camera, and also highly-rated for video making if you decide to stray down that route. I use a Canon 100mm macro lens for photographing bugs in the garden, but I'd start with the kit lens (18 - 135mm is one of their newer kit lenses and ideal as a starter) for now and see how you get on.

80D has been around for a while now, so there should be plenty of second-hand options. Cheapest place I've found (anywhere in the world) for new kit is H Dew Cameras - just be aware that they are cheap because their kit is all grey import and not official Canon UK supply, which can put some people off.
Mistress Rose

Mifsuds of Brixham have a pretty good range of second hand cameras. Son uses them mail order, and we have been visiting for years, so a pretty good bet for stability.

pm sent Wink

this is getting difficult, i like the look of the d80 and standard multilength lens pack for probably less than i would expect that level of performance and it has quick set " scene " modes which can be handy. less than a grand for the basics and a few hundred for decent cards, hoods , extra batteries etc bags . a k and a little bit.

even for hd video or a decent photo edit tool i will need a new pooter and decent monitor for cutting and rendering so another 1.5 k if i build it

so if i can live without " scene" modes i could spend an extra k and a bit for a d5 mk iv and an even better multi use lens and then see what other lenses i can or need to aquire

i just realised it was 1964 when i took and developed my first film so no mountain or face settings are really needed even if they are quick shortcuts at times, if in dought 55mm, f8 and get close enough to fill the frame chance are there will be enough image to make a snap.

my chum had a d2 that i somewhat coveted a while back Rolling Eyes when i upgraded to my first digi compact but he had a newsroom work station and a picture editor

to be realistic i need to decide between maybe 3k and a pretty good camera etc or 5k and a really nice one with some decent hardware/ software for snaps and video included.

i have a legit but no longer supported full cs3 which if i can migrate it to a new pooter might be ok for stills but 4k video is a bit data rich for old stuff. hum ho hum.

if i work out some possible ways to monetise the images i will go for the good stuff and take it from there. no weddins no christenins no children and gurning parents no pets and definitely no weddins.
i did one wedding for a chum, 2 cameras for every our day snap and wandering pap for the other guests and fun aspects, i did a decent job but it was well stressful
i would be up for autopsies , war zones or most other things that are far more relaxing than ..... oh i just remembered there are folk who do snot child snaps in shopping centres and print them off for a tenner for the proud parent , uuughhh.
that job offer was considered unsuitable by the person your interlocutor refers to with the perpendicular pronoun
if i want a pocket camera my phone or compact ones are fine but i quite fancy using 55 yrs practice with some top end kit while i have the chance

i would be better for the rigours of even domestic wildlife imaging to have pro kit and it does give a better chance of producing decent work

i need to consider this Rolling Eyes

If you've got the skills, the 5D Mk IV is awesome. I'd love one, but I think I need to outgrow the 80D first before I can justify it! Would still keep the 80D, though, for those safari moments when you need a quick lens change - much easier to have a second camera with a different lens on it than fumble around trying to change lenses in a hurry!
Mistress Rose

I think I started on photography before you then Dpack. I was helping my father with his darkroom stuff from about 1960 and taking my own photos by about the same time, all be it some on a box Brownie before I graduated to a camera you could adjust. I find that sort of camera far easier to use when you have a separate calculator then set the lens up, rather than the semi automatics. You had to frame your picture well too as there were only 12 pictures per roll of film, so no quick snaps to delete later. Very Happy

I haven't done any serious photography for years, but still remembered enough to help son when he did wet processing at school, and still advise him on composition. He has taken to it well, and is quite serious in an amatuer way. He has done shoots for a group he follows and their Rock Choir group, but no money in it for him.

having asked a few questions i recon i might have got some slight idea of what i want.

good body, good gp lens, good macro, good ring light ( d5, sigma etc )

good monitor 4k, ( i can put the toolbox on any basic monitor that talks to the pooter )

i probably want a new trackball and pen tablet as mine are a bit past their best and i probably want a weather box for the camera just to keep bird lime out of the machinery

now the pooting bit

photoshop is now a cloud service rather than a purchase which means i do not need a block heating pooter but i do need something that can run that level of image, video and probably sound stuff

what pooter do i need?

64 bit with an OS that lets you install as much RAM as possible and an SSD as the OS drive

And you can buy a relatively recent version of Photoshop or Creative Suite on eBay

64 bit with an OS that lets you install as much RAM as possible and an SSD as the OS drive

Pah - regular SSD hardrives are sooo yesterday! You want an NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD for the OS, you do.

That's a nice looking piece of kit Shane.

This one's cheap

thanks folks, it would seem the studio side of stuff is possible if i am sensible and get the right kit.

plugging into the hoover dam to run the pooter seems rather last decade Laughing

the super fast drive does seem a good idea and quite a few chassis styles can handle a decent cpu, gpu, sound and lots of ram

if i go lappy i do get one screen for tools or for gp use

sd mentioned that between ps online, a decent work book, a phone and the camera the my side pooter power could be reduced to a minimum.
i do like the idea of simple but i also like the idea of no dependency on online stuff

as i am on grid , planning a very local project , i could spit a cherry stone at it and win so i should be able to keep it simple

and recon the kit is plausible so now i need to get a spec together

100mm macro with dedicated ring light
20 to 200 gp lens
decent biggish 4k monitor

gulp even if i have or can borrow, beg, make, etc a few odds n ends to complete the kit

back in the olden days to do what i would like to do was maybe possible but it would have been daft expensive, very low res in many senses and a nightmare

gather data
record good images
enjoy doing it, consider how this funds the next one or is a useful/fun thing to do as appropriate
decent motives i spose but if i find a new species in my very small urban jungle it will get a very appropriate and silly name.

most of the wildlife is pretty chilled about me so no hides or lens like la palma nonsense, it gets get very up close and personal and most of it does not bite me very much.

art and science sort of meet when i look at the hedge, tis pretty but it is also fascinating as an urban microhabitat

it might be fun to play with this Laughing

Add a tripod to the list - pretty essential if you want sharp images, especially with a macro lens. No need to push the boat out with the budget unless you want the latest carbon fibre must-have tripod that weighs the same as your little finger - you'll be able to get a sturdy enough tripod for around the 30 - 40 quid mark, I'd have thought.

Be careful with the range of a lens - there's a reason that Canon/Nikon limit the ratio to around 3- or 4-to-1 for their high-end lenses. 20 to 200mm is a 10:1 ratio, and you'll not get quality images at either end of the range, although there will probably be a sweet spot in the middle somewhere. My 80D came with the 18 - 135mm lens, which is okay for general snapping, but for the longer-range stuff I use an L-spec 70-300mm (much, much sharper images than the kit lens) and for wide angle stuff I have a Tokina 11-16mm (bought second-hand off a neighbour). Before the 18 - 135mm, I had their 18 - 200mm lens (on a 60D) and it was nowhere near as good.

Also worth looking at a 50mm lens when you're ready to expand your collection, as they are great in lower light conditions. Canon do a reasonably priced 50mm f/1.8 lens (I've got one) and a more expensive 50mm f/1.4 lens (I want one).

This one's cheap

Yep, but you get what you pay for. Transfer speed is half that of the Samsung. My philosophy when buying/building a PC is to spend a little extra for a lot more performance, as it can postpone the inevitable obsolescence date by a few years - works out cheaper in the long run.

im fine for tripods, umbrella lights etc etc.

i have loads of fixed lenses that will go on with a ring ( no auto focus, etc is not always an issue ) but i do like a one lens can do most jobs fairly well rig as a snapping camera.
perhaps i just dont like dragging a bag about in many ways a fixed lens f8 and move till it fills the frame was rather nice

i have a well used canon 35 to 85 usm lens which is ok but only really as a spare cos i would not put my old bike tyres on a new ferrari.

the 20 200 i was looking at is a sigma Rolling Eyes
most of the time it would be in the mid range but having both ends ( even if a fixed or tighter range lens might be a slightly higher quality image ) snapping without changing lenses is better than still be unzipping the bag as the snap ambles off.

the macro might be a canon own brand or very top end if i can find a good SH one

i have looked at good tele lenses and i cannot justify the price for the quality i would want, a good un is the same sort of price as a pretty decent new car.
with the long stuff it is not the magnification that is expensive it is needing the huge hole at the front to make it useful for moving stuff and in less than nuclear lighting and it needs high build quality to avoid optical aberrations between the big hole and the sensor/film .

last time i worked out what i needed for a kingfisher flying through the triangle of rod,line and river the lens was about £15k. the 30 body was up to it but it might have taken quite a bit of film.
i didnt take the snap, never mind

the main reason for the big range is for id snaps, i need to cover from bug to bird over maybe 20 meters, from on the lens to the "horizon " is a pretty small jungle and i can move around the part of it i want to record in detail but even then a decent range of focal length will be handy for the counting and behaviour stuff where speed is more important that super high res.
i will have to try such a combo for balance etc but i recon i can probably still pap with a brick Laughing there are some pretty good handhold mounts as well, have a few.

duh note to self what about the handling duh, Embarassed

i recon i will look at weather proof covers but improvise can be fairly effective to keep the world out of the works.
as one fixed tripod shot is my line of sight from here in a box on the window sill or just in front and lower than the sill on a tripod outside and controlled by smart phone or pooter from the comfort of a uncomfy chair inside seems ideal and far better than trail cam.
as the sparrows often stand there and look in at me it would need a decent set of body armour and a brolly, a hapeth of tar saves getting the wetwipes or something.

it would be ace to have an unlimited budget and camera the yard like springwatch meets bigbrother but i will need to be bold and sensible, keep it simple and adaptable and be creative to get the tasks done with what i can justify getting and make beg and borrow as needs be,

getting used to the camera/new pootering stuff might take a little while so if i have the basic kit soonish i can play about and be ready for a planned day by day thing from new year perhaps.
i need to work out where to set achievable parameters and method that produce at least some useful data rather than just pretty anecdote and snaps of cute wildlife.

cute/funny/awesome/interesting etc is where the money is, that would be nice but it is not built in yet.
technicals first Laughing

i have been reading and trying to work out what i want /can do

putting aside posh camera issues i have been a fan of low res digital imaging for ages, i have form and kit for using £5 cameras and posh pooting power

Idea a few webcams in plastic bags or a super cheap security system would be ideal for behavioural stuff re the sparrows, so long as it is good enough to id them and what they are doing it creates data at low cost.

is that plausible?

if it is i can concentrate on the paperazzi stuff with a strap or tripod for " who is it?" pretty snaps/video and "what is it ,what is it doing?" ones etc and run 24/7 multi cam really cheaply for the sparrow behavioural stuff and fast forward to the interesting bits etc the movement detect catches, cunning if i can make it work

what do you think?

it changes the kit parameters a bit but might be better and easier than trying to get behaviour data in hi res unless it has been planned to show a single something

re the high res this is a urban environment with good reflections and assorted opportunities to get a direct sunshot by carelessness or design.

how robust to sun are decent dig cameras?

my compact is fairly robust, i' ve had it ten years Laughing but it has a tiny ish hole and a different system. i have killed a few sensors, killing an expensive one would be upsetting.

i can think of mirror up situations where the camera might not be able to protect itself, 20 min video fixed shot and the sun moves onto a window uggghhh.
i need to find out about that sort of thing.

Direct sunlight will toast the sensor on most digital cameras, so you'd need to avoid a situation where it's pointing directly at the sun.

They can also overheat if left standing in direct sunlight - unlikely to cause any damage, but will probably cause the camera to shutdown to protect itself.

ta , i thought it might be an issue, i will add sunhats for the lenses and be aware .

not doing deliberately will help as will using a box for some things but i do need to consider angles on sunny days especially the death ray reflections from several different places at different times of day ( and the window that does a sweeping beam if they open it at the right time )

having done some online research, talked to a couple of folk and done a fair bit of thinking about exactly what i need it to do i might have narrowed it down quite a lot..

the 5 mk1 won't do the job even if it was a prime example at a SH bargain price.
no wifi/bluetooth,

that left/leaves an 5 mk4 or something else.

i had a look at canon's latest mirrorless full frame as SD had mentioned mirrorless had improved a lot recently.

it has a few downsides compared to a 5.4 but the advantages are ace.

as i am starting from ( non ) scratch with glass the new configuration of lens management is no problem (and the converter ring is factory kit if i go for older lenses at some point)

it might use leccy faster but it can be usb charged rather than using an " odd " voltage from it's own charger and i assume reliable 240v to power that.
that one is a biggy for me.

it handles so nicely, very light,good balance , i found the buttons instinctively ( tis a canon ) and with a decent multipurpose and macro it would be a simple kit rather than " i should have brought a wheelbarrow to lug this pile of horror and i need a merlin to mount it on "

the r is better at video which is nice and is silent and jump free, even the best mirror swing has issues with those

i spose i have been mirrorless since i retired the 30 and have not had a mirrored digital so it does not seem like a step back in tech which probably makes sense

better in low light as well

price is similar for either route

gulp , in the past i have just got an interesting camera to play with or the best i can somehow afford to use for taking snaps, trying to spec for wildlife within 10 metres ( and get the best snapping camera i can ) has taken a bit of work .

thanks folks , it has been handy to bounce ideas about and i am going to be asking questions that baffle me but will be obvious to others.

if i have got that bit as a cunning plan which seems plausible i next need to work out a decent pootering system for editing and tweaking and find a decent monitor.

i know this stuff isnt very downsizery on the surface but i want to show the world how bio diverse one can make a small rather sterile set of micro climates and habitats as well as record what is there and try to sort out sparrow dynamics.

it might involve high tech and enough cash to put a lot of meals in tums but drawing the beasts on a cave wall and putting a calender next to it has been done and had a pretty small audience Laughing

this way i might get to persuade enough folk to use wherever they have to make the best of the space they have to create biodiverse habitats in urban areas.
as far as pollinators go an urban low pesticide landscape is far better than a toxic field that looked yummy.
i half suspect that until we change industrial food production practice the best bet for " arks " will be enough urban micro spaces, retaining diversity of pollinators seems sensible. the other wee beasts are nice as well and then there are the predators to protect one's " crops "

it can work big as well if folk learn how

eos r, 35mm 1.8 macro and iirc 35 to 105 gp lens + a ring for non native lenses are heading to a shop near me

i have discount and freebies built in but as yet not fully unspecified Laughing

the pooter thing i recon i can get a decent box with the right sort of bits for less than a might cope lappy. no brainer
it is going to require some more study but i have a few ideas for the right sort of specs

a 4k but not too huge in size monitor needs a bit of work.

something i think might matter for the minibeasts is although the camera will do 4k it will do hd+ awesomely well which might be very handy for macro insect behaviour.

and a comfy chair:lol: Laughing Laughing

oh , shhhh , im in love.

so far we are very cautiously flirting but a few test snaps on auto plus are pretty good considering the lack of skill and what would be bad light for most auto.

a click a bat might miss, no jump, ace feel with perfect balance in the 40 to 85 range of the 24/105 lens.

so far after reading the christmas morning guide and skimming the 644 page real one it is pretty simple and instinctive to follow the instructions with the mind or fingers if you are a canon user.
i had not got to the bit about turn it back on and look at the snaps, the button was just by my thumb and nicely marked.
they do seem to have thought this one through rather well.

if you like cameras don't play with one of these they are very seductive.
unless you can justify what you will do next in a refreshingly believable way to any who may be concerned Laughing Laughing Laughing

more reading and a proper play tomorrow seems wise. a mannered courtship seem appropriate Laughing Laughing

i just realised that in 1999 as a student with a student pittance i spent almost the same amount this camera cost on film , processing and printing.

pound for pound and not adjusted for 20 yrs on. wow.

having thought that i went back a bit and a top end tv studio camera by ikegami was about £3/4 mill and the size of a chair in the early 1980's
even a decent beta cam was a couple of years average wage,
top end then was well under even non hd broadcast quality now, nice lenses but the sensors were of their time.

lenses are better now for far less as well

how times change for the better
Laughing Laughing Laughing

not any sort of performance review and i might be biased toward canon ergnomics but i handled a few things during the process and some felt less than natural to hold.

balance really matters for hand held and reaction snapping

ps i still like the £5 keyring, ten snaps , pixels in thousands, blob of plastic lens etc as very low fi sort of kit Laughing

the learning curve is slow and steep and a bit funny at times.

i had not looked at video in the manual when the red button made it's purpose clear

it was today before i realised the screen is not only multi angle but is also reversible ready to clip back to the body.

best one was " why cant i adjust anything? oh it is in full super auto pilot mode "

Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Laughing

tis nice though and even if it has a 645 page manual before you get to the software which no dought has it's own manuals i recon i can learn to fly it if i put the time in.

it does rather remind me of the first time i tried the f16 falcon sim, not only in the complexity but also in the multiple ways to do the same thing and more things it can do than one might expect.
that took a while to get the basics and the subtleties take a lot longer

i am still working on basic settings , what does this button do? etc etc
not even tried the macro lens yet.

not a toy for the impatient, it is not just learn it but it is also learn it often enough for it to be instinctive as the snap is the important bit rather than the technicals .

tis good i decided a 6th month learning curve might be about right to get the basics Laughing

i have not got beyond fumbling basics yet, 50 or so pages on assorted auto focus methods made my head spin Rolling Eyes

however i have managed to grasp enough to pap an invertebrate in enough detail to make id pretty easy even just using the camera screen to zoom and sweep the photo.

a couple of mins from snap to knowing i am hosting at least one grey dagger caterpillar, acronita psi, i have seen a few hints of stealth moth in the darkness so it seems they might be among the regular fauna.
( i dont know how they avoid the bats, tis pippistrelle territory although there only seem to be 3 this year, they have a shape and surface that might be hard to find by sonar )

this is good as papping invs. and bird pattern with a manageable gp lens for id is part of the plan,

just now a couple of mins papping a cloud of sparrows from a couple of meters away does not seem to bother them and i got snaps good enough for detailed feather pattern, ie give a bird a name and know it again Cool
they were not great snaps and i can improve on them a lot once i work out how to fly this thing but at least it works in principle.

re the steep learning curve
the first couple of time i was trying to adjust something and failing in multiple ways and then camera stops doing what i ask and provided a handy hint as to what i should be doing was a bit spooky Laughing but i now now the dustbin has multi functions , i should have guessed but i am only up to page 150 something Laughing

at first it was very spooky but when it asked me to give it a name so it could connect to wifi i started to warm to it's personality.

that stuff will come later, i recon pooter, phone,camera need to be synced at the same time.

re the charging thing, it does need mains/charger and battery/ies but spare batteries are not too expensive so unless i'm off grid for more than a while the holiday can be snapped etc etc.
one in and a couple of spares would be a well over a thousand snaps even if the screen got used for reviews etc.

i recon i can live with that as it is mostly intended for urban use at at the mo

at last simple boresight aiming and af lock is within my feeble grasp of flying the thing.

the similarities of between the af on this sort of kit and the electronics of a block 50 f16 are remarkable.
very similar principles , put the thingy on the thingy and press the button , lots of ways to do it cleverly and well and all tricky to learn Laughing
my last film one had a system where you could define the point of interest by looking at it through the view finder, that seems to have been dropped from camera tech, i wonder if that is because in a helmet that is really advanced tech and the electronics do not care if they activate a camera or weapons system.
i recon that circuit has definitely got dual use.
pity that it is has gone but perhaps i can see why Rolling Eyes

i think i might have found a pooter.

not easy, video and photo need slightly different things to get both in the same machine is ...

a ; daft expensive see macs and microsoft pro kit

b; it is ace for .... but it needs extras /improvise for other stuff ( £ n )

c; or it is a lenovo yoga all in one ( also about £ n )

took a while but hooves crossed i have a model and a supplier , i will see how it goes

build or have it built would cost as much or more ( i have been known to over engineer Laughing ) so a plausible off the shelf makes sense Laughing Laughing Laughing

ps whatever camera you have or want if it has a screw fixing for a tripod or whatever that is where the single point swivel sling goes unless it is on a tripod.

it is so much nicer than a tops attached strap , more discrete and secure, easier to swap from in use to a tidy dangle behind and close and you don't have a glass codpiece sticking out the front between snaps

pps the 30 mm macro will hand held pap for insects down to pinhead size and have enough detail for id , owt bee size you can count the hairs on it's bum.
it seems that plan works Cool
in my rather tight space 30 mm is perhaps better than a longer one as it is easy to be close but wide and close is handy

tis still a steep learning curve and i a'm at the base of it but some is instinctive after decades and tech is tech.
i'm keeping it simple til i grasp each stage, tis an odd process migrating to a new set of tech even if it does the same basic jobs as old friends.

ahh after a few years of happy linux use i am going to have to remember microsoft style and learn win 10
slide into old codger mode, win 98 sp2 was the best OP bill's crew ever made Laughing

i will keep the linux steampunk server with studio quality sound cos it is nice to leave few footprints and rattle the walls sometimes

iirc i can partition a bit of a disk on the new one and have linux as an OS option

tech , pffff love it and hate it Laughing Rolling Eyes

pooter sorted gulp Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

tis sorted though , if it arrives working and complete Laughing

see comment in it matters

Just back from holiday, some of which was spent playing with a friend's rather impressive mirrorless Nikon, so I'll be following your living review on the Canon equivalent (being a Canon junkie myself) Very Happy dpack

the Nikon has slightly better specs but I did not like the feel of it, I know where things are on a canon and it is more than good enough.
maybe it is what I am used to or perhaps I have had a few because the shape suits me but of the ones I played with I prefer the handling of the r to other makes and to the mk iv

I have yet to see the results full size ( about 2/3 size for a full res snap even with a 4k+ screen )
I have the pooter working and talking to all it's bits and my phone, the Bluetooth works the headphones to the end of the yard which bodes well for remote for the camera.

I recon I need a day at least to sync the camera and get used to how it interacts with the other things.

after that I can sort photoshop and then start learning to get what I want from the camera.

having just started to play with this pooter it does seem like it was made for creative stuff.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the combo can be made to do, if I can spellcheck with a finger tip or pen or mouse or keyboard I recon photoshop will be fun.

if you do decide to upgrade I recon it needs the right sort of pooter rig to make the most of it.

I spose it is pro quality tools but i'm a bit old and battered to be using the Milwaukee SDS and Hamilton brushes etc etc so applying the same criteria if it needs to look and be right with minimum trouble use good tools.

I recon I am close to complete for hardware once a few more bits arrive and I get a largish external hd and perhaps a 100/300 white series lens ( pre loved at a good price ) if the is will work via the R to EOS converter ring. I need to get the details and ask canon.

as to software I need to find the best photoshop option as that is the tool I need , know and like for leccy photos.
video can wait Laughing Laughing i have plenty to learn without complicating matters yet.
last time i did video it was DV tape and HD , i had to build a pooter to deal with it, hopefully this one will cope.

a bit of a diversion from camera stuff but pretty relevant , full frame is serious number crunching when it comes to image manipulation and needs a pretty decent screen.

surface pro / R, gulp , where is cardinal fang to hear my confession?Embarassed

and i also sinned with a new office chair which is far nicer for my knee ,back and shoulder . necessary if rather tiresome.

the headphones are rather nice as well Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

hopefully the results will justify the means

I'm using Photoshop Elements (version 14) at the moment - it's good enough for what I do (much like the 80D Laughing ) and totally different to anything I'd used before, so I'm still learning it. Newer versions of Adobe software are cloud subscription only (v14 is a freestanding installation), I think, which would annoy me as I don't use it often enough to justify paying 20 quid a month.

Lightroom is ace for cataloging and simple bulk edits, too, so worth reading up on that one. It also lets you design photobooks and calendars, if that sort of thing tickles your fancy, although there are plenty of online alternatives, some of which provide more optionality.

Built my own rig a couple of years back that's more than powerful enough for my purposes. Coupled it with a 16 TB external NAS drive, as storage in GB isn't enough when you routinely come back from a holiday with 5000 photos Shocked ).

that pooter would be up to most jobs that need number crunching or data storage.

I would like stand alone photoshop but I have a feeling I need the newest or at least newish stuff

research is required , I have a feeling that there might be some decent software with the camera but some version of photoshop seems essential.

I will try to find the best deal that will do the job, there is a lot of photoshop I never need but parts are ace for darkroom stuff and arty stuff.

I have a full legit cs3 and only ever used the camera still image part and the filing system, ideal for 7mp or scans but it would be like running a new supercar on cracked birch distillates Laughing

at the mo i don't need more than basic video edit so long as it can cope with 4k but for stills i need full image tweaking, filters and some graphics stuff. as far as i have discovered if i want museum quality prints a jpeg is ideal so i do not need some of the " a million ways to talk to the printers " stuff , nor do i want to do instant news feed.

i need to prep photos to look how I want them to look for photoprint or online, extract data from photos ( video later ) and have the tools for arty stuff.

stuff for packaging designers or things i never even looked at are not needed.

i will get to that once the hardware is all chatting nicely:roll:

i managed to get the camera and pooter talking by usb3+ which is a start, i think the camera talks to the phone but the phone does not understand yet and i have had several new passwords for several old things in a day.

tech , it is nice really, tis frustrating when some bits are seamless and others are not.

if some things can work instinctively and easily why don't folk learn from how that is done and avoid most of the issues folk have attaching a new thing or migrating to a new machine.

£99 for a year seems decent value for photoshop and both styles of lightroom, a useable amount of cloud storage for work in progress and a few other nice odds n ends Wink

i did not get 11 yrs out of cs3 desktop version and i only used about a third of it, i.e. the bits i have this time.

overall this will be cheaper until i need another chunk of software for posh video edits rather than basics

new photoshop is similar to old photoshop but it has better help and tutorials.

new photo shop for dummies will be sourced and secured Laughing
i rather like the idiot's guide to how to do whatever the idiot wants to do rather than trying to interpret the instruction manual to the requirements.

it is a proper skill writing them but the book of the app or device is far better from a user point of view than the factory manuals when it is well done.

ps re migrating cos i am so carp at typing i have had up to 5 new passwords on one account before i got it to the right machine and right browser

pps IE Bing etc are rubbish but you have to use what fires up to recover/adapt/replace the good stuff.
i hope i am very near uninstalling IE and all it's little demons Laughing

chompski has been helping me edit and resize photos, we are not quite there yet iirc this could be almost twice the resolution and i still need to work out how to embed metadata and copyright protection.

ps. new photoshop is ace but the lightroom filing systems are a bit beyond me so far.
it is much more user friendly than the cs3 era stuff

the camera, pooter , photoshop combo does seem to work together rather well.
i get the feeling to get the best out of any of them requires the other two so my cunning if rather expensive plan seems technically viable.

something i have really noticed is how little photoshop work is required to produce a decent image.
this has had a small align and crop but needed no studio work to make it look right like stuff from my old sureshots usually did.

getting suitable compression for web use is fairly simple, this simpleton found a way in about half an hour.

most of the buttons and options are in the same places but it is all much slicker and nicer to use.

having multiple input options is nice, fingers, trackball keyboard and pen are working so far, the dial thing will have to wait til i know what i'm supposed to be doing with it Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

pps, i did not get the lenovo as their sales team cost me £20 not answering their phone on a premium rate number.
silly reason maybe but if they dont want to sell em i am pretty sure they would not want to fix them if they dont work.

so i went for a bill special and got top end surface studio pro, with a nus discount it was still quite pricey.

however, it does seem up to the job and has all manner of bells and whistles that are possibly useful and a few that already are.

i have often felt the main issue with ms os is they need a lot more machine than most folk get to run them on.

the last time i was really happy with bill's os was 98 sp2 running on a home built 3 . 2 chip and good sub boards rig with, at the time a massive, 500 gb disk
i built it for running a sound studio and video edit suite but it was a pretty good gaming machine as well

so far this machine seems to work fine with win 10 ( whatever that is Laughing Laughing ) it is fairly instinctive having started with ms dos and used a few since.

i do like the simplicity and customization of linux and the useful free software it has but it is not suitable for image or video or sound if you want to use decent tools.
as an everyday os it is hard to beat cos you can do most stuff to home use/ office use standards with a fraction of the hardware and software costs needed for ms or mac.

ie gimp is ideal for low res tweaking and polishing a snap for web use or making a christmas card, a funding pitch document with maps and plans is easy in office etc but it has few tools compared to the real stuff for creative work.

i managed to get a mk 1 white 100/400 is lens for a decent price, a few scratches on the body but the optics and mechanicals are fine Laughing

it is rather nice if a bit of a bazooka to hand hold .

i'm fairly sure i have several hand grips that might work on the tripod ring but hand held is poss with either of the is modes switched on and a fast iso

hand held for more than a short while would be quite tricky unless one has a healthy body and a fair bit of internal control.

fine for snaps, video with that lens will need a tripod.

apart from either more batteries or the battery grip i think i am done for hardware bar a few bags and some sort of all the kit carry/store container

thinking of the battery grip it makes it bigger but it can be powered by mains wire, there is another extra bit of kit for usb and yet another for 12v power.Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
my favourite idea at the mo is work with what i have got to identify what is missing

the 100/400 was definitely missing from the kit, the three lenses cover most things i might want to do and quite a lot of things that i dont want to do but now could.

re is in the lens rather than the camera, i just wobbled an id friendly snap of a moth on the ceiling with a 400mm trombone and although it looked jumpy as in the viewfinder when i pressed the button it came out with well enough to zoom in on the snap and see the fur on it's legs

not bad for available light indoors at night, iso 40000 probably helped Laughing

note to self dust and wash tripods Wink

one reason i find this rather good fun is that at last what i want from kit and what is available matches

the last time that happened was the eos30 and nice wet facilities

i first saw good kit in the 1980's , the studio cost £5 mil and each of the big cameras was about £.75 mil.
that only did video of a fraction of the resolution now available at home for rather less.

in that sort of perspective it does not seem too daft to get decent kit at last

re snaps , even though i am only just starting to see what i can do this thing has advantages over film and wet stuff that are superb.

i spose the big test will be to see if i can obtain a decent print .
afaik there are folk who will do archive quality high res work for a respectable price, i will make a snap and see how they get on:P

a bit ahead of myself, online is nice and useful but hard copies of the arty stuff are good for assorted reasons

i promise not to covet the camera and lens the dancing bird chap took to the land of the lost volcano ( bbc telly)Laughing
oops, ok i promise Laughing Laughing Laughing
liar, that thing was lovely Very Happy

i found an old handle and screwed it to daddy bear lens.
it helps but over 250mm it needs more weight at the camera end
it is not a nice one but wrapped in clingy bandage it is useable for the mo but i am going to explore other hand held mount systems.
for video even with the 24/105 a steadycam type mount would be nice

the 100/400 is a bit of a beast at 1.5kg without the camera but the is in the long lens is ace, even with no handle i got hand held 400mm snaps that were fairly unblurred Cool

it might be via the converter ring and a rather older lens design but it does the job.

gulp, proper kit at last, it has only taken 55 years Laughing

i have been playing, with a bit of study when lost, and i rather like this thing.

if i stand in the doorway the 100 to 400 white lens is awesome for the feeder 2m away.
i need to play with the focus modes for in flight at a distance shots and for group or individual snaps at the feeder. an easy switch between modes can be preset but i have not got that far yet.

even in slow continuous mode it takes 3 or 4 snaps a second

considering it is a grey day being able to turn up the iso a lot is rather useful, again i need to play more with that and perhaps a few umbrella reflectors as the feeder is in shade and under in a hedge.
more light=faster shutter speed and less blur issues for id if birdy is moving or for arty flying snaps

the sparrows were a bit concerned at the clicking to start with but soon got used to it

no photos i want to post yet but im getting there. Laughing

tis rather like starting again but it is rather nice.

ps dik does not care about a man with a clicking thing Cool

re flying things at a distance , remember to always take the camera co i missed a chance to snap a hurricane as it came over.

we have a very varied set of planes, current issue are predictable (or a bit random) and the heritage ones from elvington and linton often play about.

happy new year, happy new project Laughing Laughing Laughing

all was set, camera, 20 birds, me.
then a raptor arrived overhead and everyone hid, someone may have hidden a few doors along with the cats Rolling Eyes

calm is resuming , but the light is starting to go for being able to get feather pattern snaps.

so far i have a few , sort of ok, ones for one bird. Laughing

yesterday i could have filled a couple of cards with sparrow close ups Laughing

wc fields is the patron saint of wildlife study ".... never work with .... or animals."

as i type most are back including the robin, pigeons and lady blackbird

at least it is not day one wondering where the penguins and my toes are Laughing

Cool i just got 50 or so snaps of tweed, last fledgeling of the last clutch and a bit different to most sparrows.

some are decent enough for id even if it was less than ideal conditions.

iso 40000, f5.1 100th sec picked her out from what the mk one eyeball saw as a darkish blur
that was with the GP lens at about 100mm pap style from the step , for high res stuff i need to use the 100/400

but tis day one and starting by papping for a full colony worth of id snaps ( wide is ok if they have enough data to reveal details when zoomed) seems a decent tactic

325mm ish from the step gives a 32mpx double raw full screen picture of a sparrow( delving into that is microscopy), tis ideal for high res portrait stuff and detail observational stuff but it is a bit chunky and harder to handhold in low light

both and more will be done

i need to try video, i have used video since the mid '80's but i need to read up on how this thing works.
the spec is better than any studio or domestic kit i have played with* so if i can get it to take a decent snap i might be able to get it to make a decent video.

*tis a while ago but i went from ex studio kit to the lowest res tec that worked for puppetry and daftness and would render on the pooter i could build on a budget etc
now i have 4k in a clever box with nice lenses and top end machine, software and cloud stuff to organize it with.
i will need to upgrade to a better edit suite for anything but basic video editing but plenty to do first.
Mistress Rose

If you are working from a fixed point, would using a tripod, or even a monopod help with stability? dpack

yep but it increases time to settle on a focus point

all my lenses are image stabilized and i can push to iso 40000 so in any sort of daylight can use a fairly high shutter speed so shake/subject movement are not too much of a problem

for sparrow behaviour, portrait or video the tripods will be used, along with either the cable or wifi remote , but id snaps seem best papped to get the full colony recorded before the start of the breeding season.
going by the weather they will make an early start again. last year there were 4 clutches from some nests.

i have a mini tripod/handle for the long lens which is ace for basic stability and the clever electronics/engineering does most of the rest.

fitting my snaps into their schedule rather than the other way round is just a matter of patience and timing, i hope Laughing

timing, they were cool with me getting 150 snaps at dusk.

the problem with that is shutter speed for good feather pattern snaps

a steep learning curve and perhaps the early snapper catches the birds Laughing
Mistress Rose

I have heard a woodpecker in the wood over the last couple of outings there, so they could be starting early too. dpack

i put a snap of justin in the wildlife thread, not perfect(or portrait style) but adequate for id mugshots even in winter light which under a hedge between two houses and aligned north west is a bit gloomy at the mo.

recording them as individuals with good id's and an idea of their start of season loyalties seems a good start to following the social and family stuff as the year goes on.

so far the canon R and 3 lenses have done everything i wanted of them once i worked out how to ask nicely.
however the current kit has limitations. 650 full fat raw photos= a full card and a nearly flat battery, i can do that in under 20 mins.
i have 2 cards and 2 batteries at the mo.
i need the battery grip(2 batteries and in use usb powering) and at least 2 more cards so as i can shoot and then look.
video, i recon i get about 30 mins per card/battery but i have yet to play properly with video(the lighting is a challenge at the mo)

when i used film i would often load rolls of far more than 36 snaps, for what i am trying to do bulk data collection is a vital tool as many snaps have no useful info and with the multi snap thing a second can be 7 snaps of blurred wings or an empty space:lol:

the machine is pretty instinctive for a canon fan but the non factory manual has helped with the stuff that is very new to me and will help with specific tasks.

hideous expensive especially as the pooter needed a similar factor of ten £ upgrade but so far they do seem to fulfil the kit requirements for detail wildlife stuff.

the mk one 100/400 white lens is awesome at close range, if the birds were less comfy with me i might want far bigger glass to snap from further than a few feet.
it is pretty ok even if the mk2 is supposed to be better
used 1 = £600 or new 2 = £2k , no brainer

i have not played with stabilization mode 2 yet which is for moving subjects, but it might be handy for things on wings.

never work with animals but if you must at least have the kit to give you a chance of getting it right:lol:

ps i am now after including the peregrines in this if i get lucky with the snaps Shane

Good to see the project is progressing. If you start getting into the video side of things, it might be worth looking into a fluid head for the tripod - you can get a decent one for not too much money these days. For video processing, Photoshop Elements does everything I need, although I have an older, stand-alone desktop version - I would feel aggrieved if I had to sign up for the new subscription-only version for the limited use I get out of it.

Not sure if the 100-400 is the same as other Canon lenses, but generally IS mode 2 is for side-to-side movement (think passing race cars), with mode 1 good enough for most handheld stuff.

Headed east for Christmas and took a few wildlife snaps (of varying quality) of my own:


Okay - so the cows are more free range than wild, but I liked the way they lined up in size order. They must have known an engineer was coming along Laughing
Mistress Rose

You do seem to have got some useful pictures Dpack, and that study may bring forward the interaction between sparrows a long way.

Shane, interesting pictures, or things not usually seen in an English back yard. Laughing Some good ones there, but with that range of subjects, as you say, they can't all be brilliant.

nice snaps shane and a nice range of tropical critters

the mk one has IS mode 1(handheld) and mode 2(linear motion across the frame).
the two that come with the R have one mode that along with the camera electrics makes it's own decisions based on what is moving and how.

at the mo my issue is light, shooting at 24000 to 40000 works but tis grainy and even then i can only get 1/200 ish at F7 so freezing movement is an issue.
until the sun is high enough to not be behind a building(late feb)getting hi res snaps will be tricky

while i was exporting a snap for web use i noticed the rather nice colour chart listing the colours of the subject, perhaps that might be a useful tool in the id box Idea

the sparrows do have quite a colour range and it might be enough to id them.

snapping is a bit slow at the mo, i will up my game.

the camera + lenses do the job well.

i just ordered a new printer and considered photo grade

after looking at various options i decided that i dont need it.

if i want high res archive photo i will get it done by the folk who do it (jessops for instance) but i did need a general purpose printer.

i used gp criteria and decided upfront cost were better than wasteful and vile expensive cartridge held inks.

that led to a canon g6050 which does most stuff ok and has ink tanks.

so far so good:lol:

it might not do lab quality photos but......

as it will take 300gm papers and ink is cheap it is perfect for a multi layer printing technique i started to develop 15 yrs ago .
it was too expensive to play with properly on ink cartridge cost terms, as well as killing the mechanicals a couple of times before i adjusted the next printer to take 300gm art papers

pigment black is better than photo dye ink for that game.
there is no need for more than 3 colours and pigment black to do the multi layer thing

i spose it is more painter or printer than photographer but having played until hitting a tech wall it has a lot of merit

no details of how it is done but tis basically taking a photo, using that to create layers of various sorts and then printing each layer in separate passes

it is not that different in principle to arty wet photo printing or painting but using a different toolbox.
tis still painting with light but with added electrons

as i have not seen it elsewhere i am a bit cagey about details.

i will post up some examples eventually

my new canon g6000 printer landed, probably ace for me, office or school type use. a bit slow for a big print run of colour stuff but fast enough for most things

fairly easy to set up, well there have been a few moments but more me than it probably.

text can be quick or better than a lot

a full frame photo with a few basic tweaks printed up rather nicely on 180gm cheapo matte photo paper. so ok for proofs.
quite surprising, that was an earth tone one, i will have to try something vibrant to see how the ink combo copes with that.

a double pass intensifies the colours and the registration was pretty good considering first go and not being extra careful.
that bodes well for the multi pass thing.

an afternoon playing and it still works

a very nice aspect is the ink comes in 170ml B and 70ml C bottles and a full set cost less than 2 cartridges that would print far less than this system.
even better if the magenta runs out i can replace just that rather than lose whatever was left in y and c or whichever

another nice thing is that i sort of understand how cmy/black works rather than trying to learn 6 colours and 2 blacks

an initial cost of ten times the cartridge sort of machine but far cheaper after a few thousand prints

i forgot to mention, i detected a slight lock on "wobble" between the 100 to 400 and the converter ring. it worked fine but stitch in time etc

mr camera told me it is better than usual and to be expected Cool apparently rings wobble a little to allow for a variety of intimate liaisons
i should either get mind bleach or use that as a sig between cameras and lenses

situation report:

mk1 white lenses work fine with an R via the ring with the R Very Happy (the new mk2 lenses do as well afaik but they are kidney selling expensive)
the macro and GP seem the only useful R series lenses commonly available in the uk so far. others get mentioned but aint seen one

the R series lenses are very light, after using the big un for a while the GP one feels massless Laughing

nice camera and i have only just started to make it do what i want.

Embarassed i have not even tried the 4k video capacity of the thing yet Rolling Eyes

note to self show canon this sort of thinking and politely demand assorted useful freebies for review Laughing

i have changed handles on the big un to a modern grip/mini tripod wrapped in self cling bandage, it works and a change of angle can follow the point of balance a bit

carved to my hand and on a click rail might be better. if needs be i will make the first one get papers and sell them but if i can find the mount for the job off the shelf for less than development costs( oooh a wheel! time as well as etc) i will be a happy bunny.

papping little brown jobbers at close range with a 100/400mk does need a handle.
holding the camera body and an understock style grip on the lens make handling crude, balanced on a handle and hand on the controls is ace and much easy to hold while waiting to press the button
less strain on the machine as well.

i was going back ober this to refresh my memory and noticed my shots/time estimates for power and image storage.

big note to self, if opportunity arrives and bulk snapping matters tis best to have capacity to do it.

hey ho, details matter , i recon i am still under the kit budget by a little bit when i go for more power and memory. not by much Rolling Eyes

camera kit + pooter kit+ a bit of leased software under £10k, double

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes and a gulp

tis the stuff i have needed for 25 yrs, knew it could be done by then but now i have an electric sketch book and paintbrush

science and art is ace,

ps 2 sorts of paper ordered to try in the new printer, best give it a 300gm test while under gnt Twisted Evil
tis supposed to be able to do 300gm, i will see how it copes with cold and hot pressed

if anyone needs where to get rather nice papers these folk have a selection they can post

i do not get paid nor does SD who gets her print paper from them

A4 format 300gm is a bit rare, good Twisted Evil Laughing

i should be very loud and clear, 300gm watercolour paper will not work in most domestic inkjet printers, without a lot of faffing about at every stage including knowing what faffs are required and killing kit and spilling ink to no avail even if you get it eventually, they are not built for it

decent paper does have a wonderful capacity to absorb and hold pigment/dyes.

a nice thing about inkjet colour ink is that it is dye based so it works a treat on some papers, (redacted redacted redacted redacted )Laughing

3 colours and chiaroscuro is plenty to have fun with Laughing

i have a few things to do before a proper play with this but the kit is being developed thoughtfully.

cheap ink for this was not the reason to get a new printer, both of us are at the mo slaves to win 10, tt needs it for work and i wanted a snaps apps pooter, a surface met my specs. our mature printer speaks Sumerian and linux but not 10 and by now has probably succumbed to a congestive disease of the print head:lol: ink was horrid expensive as well.

lightroom is ace for reviewing burst shot birdy snaps

the R does more than i have asked so far and what i have asked it has done

i need to refine the handle for under the big lens but what i have so far is better since i increased the friction on the ball/socket turny bit by adding a bit of fiddler's rosin Cool

short and solid and shaped to fit my hand would be ideal

note to self have a(ed a more detailed chat) chat with my chum who is a woodcarver

I have an Epson expression manages 250 GSM card with the feed vertically in the back and flat out the front. It still sometimes baulks at A4. It is supposed to be able to feed horizontally but I haven't worked out how yet...that is the key to using heavier paper/card dpack

i have been ok with up to 220gm watercolour paper in domestic ones, fatter than that takes a heavy toll on the running gear
broke 5

another issue with domestic is registration, they do not consistently run true which is an issue with multi pass prints.
for a single pass it does not matter.

ink use is a huge issue if using absorbent papers

I print almost exclusively on 300gm paper ( professionally) and mainly buy mine from dpack

thanks , they look useful. i have no idea what papers i might want

so far i have arches aquarelle 300m hot and cold pressed cotton paper which i have played with before, it can even be got cut into A4 blocks.

having a choice of paper makes a lot of difference but thought i would start with a predictable canvas as all the other kit and materials are new to me Rolling Eyes

i will have a go with good photo paper made for printers, the domestic stuff is barely suitable for layout prints, thanks again. my rather nice new printer is good but simple, a black pigment and CMY dye based ink regime is not sophisticated enough for single pass printing of art/archive quality snaps. i know who to ask if it needs doing. Wink

i do hope it is up to my multi layer/multi pass art printing images, tis still under gnt if it isnt:lol:
when i was first playing with the method i did a snap of my aunts cat, the result was suitably terrifying Laughing Laughing Laughing
far too malevolent, far too 3d and very cross at being trapped on paper like a photocopied demon, just like it Laughing

the test packs look like a useful way to try a variety of papers made for printers, triple thanks

the thing i like about watercolour paper and dye based inkjet ink is that the paper has a capacity to take multiple passes to build body and detail like a painting.

i have some old ones which might help explain what i mean but pictures of them misses the point big style, they are well odd and effective in the "flesh".

a photo of a painting made with photo tech is not a painting, a painting made with photo tech is a painting Laughing
a snap may or may not be a painting but thinking of photo ( ref light) and graphy( ref making marks on a surface) photography and painting do have a lot of common ground if you are doing it properly Laughing

im still happy with the camera and starting to learn more of what it can do

most accessories have been easy but not knowing what a cheese plate was called was an issue until i discovered their name.
i need to mount a handle and strap to the mount ring on the 100/400 so as the weight is not held from the camera via the converter ring.
at the mo the handle is on the lens mount ring and the strap to the camera which just seems to put unneeded strain on delicate bits rather than chunky ones.

the other bit i am still to get is a soft silicone eye cup, the one on it is ok but i prefer the sort that fit around my eye socket excluding side light and hold the camera to my head.
canon dont have one for the camera yet but if i can work out if the fitting is ed or ef i can get a generic one, if it is neither i might be stuffed til they make one.

i can get all the kit in a case that would pass as cabin luggage by size but i might have to have a lump as a handbag on weight grounds on some routes but it does mean it will easily go in a train overhead rack if needs be.

i might get a better tripod at some point but so far i am hand held for speed of tracking a target and i like papping stuff more than rigging up for one shot and missing a far better one.
a modern carbon fibre one would be nice and light but it will need a pretty chunky mount/tilt and pan top to take this beast with the 400mm of metal and glass sticking out of it. i will have to check some out. the ones i have are ok but modern ones are far more tidy.
a better handle is further up my wish list than a new tripod.

re modern online £100 a year photoshop etc, tis better than the older versions
i am very impressed with the functions of lightroom i have discovered so far. the review mode is ace with a touchscreen, checking out cute birds is but a swipe and poke rather than clicking or waiting for the next one to slideshow.
the roladex of lightboxes8)

photoshop is basically the same but easier to use and much easier to use with a choice of : trackball, pen, fingers, turny dial thing for adjusting values and a screen big enough to have tools and image on one monitor is ace.

not cheap but it does what it is supposed to rather well.
the low light ability even at mid f numbers is nice but i am looking forward to reducing the iso and upping the shutter speed when the sun gets into my "canyon".
grainy and shakey is borderline as snaps but works for id and observational stuff but i want full fat images frozen in time for arty stuff

at last i have got the proper lens hood for the 35mm macro lens.
it took a while which i spose is a problem with a new lens.

the one i got as a freebie when i got the lens would not fit at the same time as the lens cap and it was 3 cm too long so it clipped the edges of the frame

this one was not found after a repeated internet trawl, chatting with the local independent camera shop chaps who know june at canon who knows what fits and i got this one which is perfect.
they have only just started printing this lens on the list of the macros it fits, oh well it bodes well for other odds and ends

with the protection filter i now have about 10mm from rim to lens hump and the right cone of vision to avoid flare but still give full frame Very Happy

it was not particularly expensive, for a branded top end part, but it was a beast to find one to do the job.

i know i am early adopter with this kit but i recon it will catch on. not having a mirror flapping about is rather nice and i recon those that went from 35mm film to dig mirror/slr will want to convert once they covet their neighbour's unflappable and more ergonomic asset up close and personal Laughing

it will take a little while for the lenses and custom fittings etc to catch up
with some significant improvements and be able to make the most of them but the good stuff works as well on this as it would on older stuff if not as well as the stuff made for this system.

i am rather lucky to have a local camera shop that does quite a bit of top end kit and both chaps are experienced snappers/camera technicians.
based on a few visits at least half if not more of the customers are pro and serious amateur snappers rather than folk who want something a bit better than a phone but just as cheap and simple.

they have good used top end kit if anyone is looking for something
Mistress Rose

A long way, but we have found Mifsuds in Brixham good, and they do mail order. They do a good range of cameras new and second hand.

Always useful to have a local photographic shop with experience. The two we had locally are long gone, and I think another couple are struggling, but still just keeping going. Sadly the digital revolution has affected them as a lot of their trade was printing.

i had a look at the mifsud site when i was looking for a camera body to work around, pretty good stuff.

york cameras

if you need something used that does not seem to be anywhere on line , these chaps are good at finding stuff, they have got me a few strange odds and ends within a week or two.

york is well supplied with churches, as is the surrounding area so we have an unusually large number of wedding snappers each with multiple cameras as well as other pro users, a lot of top end tourists and a fairly well off demographic including a lot of very rich international students smart enough to cope with more than one button.
i am sure that i am very lucky being in a place that can support what is effectively a pro camera shop in a market "town"

london was ok for good but basic kit i could afford and later my ex bil was a jessop's manager(hence the 3 at an affordable price for a poor chap like me)
Mistress Rose

I think most cathedral towns are like that; Chichester is similar in many ways, as are parts of Exeter, although I don't really know many others. If I go to Exeter, there is a little church in the middle of a shopping development I like to visit; an oasis of calm in the chaos around it.

Chichester still has 2 camera shops, although much depleted from what they were.

If we visit York again, may introduce son to York cameras as he is taking his photography fairly seriously these days.

the tech side of good dig has similarities to good film but enough differences to make it interesting, a bit too interesting to get a half decent image at times.

mylar is ace Wink

images that are fairly easy to work down to 2 M need a different set of techniques to a full fat, full frame blow it up to billboard size one.

i am not sure what will work best for printing, i dont just press print if i wanted "photo print" i would pay for it.
i take an image and use it to create layers, much like working in oils, that combine into a multi pass print that i do.

i have not got to that yet, the tank fuelled printer will get tried soon but at the mo i have 20 sheets of good paper and no idea if any more can be obtained .
i recon that might give me a start but depending on what i learn i will probably want to order paper quite soon and at the mo ......

perhaps i should just get a full fat image with potential and give it a go, if i run out of paper it can wait a bit and i can consider what i need

a half decent snap with new kit is quite challenging.
it is coming along sort of

a half decent snap suitable for a specific purpose i need to work on
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