| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Hannah |
Keeping lambs for meatBeing a complete newbie to sheep I wondered if you could help me. I would like to keep a couple of lambs for meat, but would like to know more and the costs involved, like ...How long do you keep the lambs before slaughter? How much does it cost to feed them for this time and what do they eat (apart from grass)? How much meat do you actually get i.e. we are 2 adults, if we ate lamb 1/2 times a week how long would it last us? How many chest freezers would it fill? How much would two lambs cost? Depending on how long you keep them, what are the chances of having to trim feet or deal with maggots etc? Many thanks and any other help gratefully received too. Hannah |
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| tahir |
I'd be interested too. I'm not interested in rearing them, just buying some in and fattening up over summer. It's a 3 acre field that I'll probably fence with electrics. I've been told that I could keep up to 20 in there depending how long I keep them for. | ||||||
| Rob R |
Re: Keeping lambs for meatHow long do you keep the lambs before slaughter?How much does it cost to feed them for this time and what do they eat (apart from grass)? Up to you really, a lamb can be finished by four months of age, but requires intensive creep feeding. The other extreme is a two year old hogget fed only grass (and maybe some hay in the winter) How much meat do you actually get i.e. we are 2 adults, if we ate lamb 1/2 times a week how long would it last us? How many chest freezers would it fill? Again, depends on breed, how long you keep them, etc. But a side of lamb/hogg can be from 8kg to 15kg (or even more/less, just over half what it weighs alive). And depending how you have it butchered, a 10kg side of lamb may take up one or two drawers of a standard upright freezer. How much would two lambs cost? Depending what weight you buy at, but about £1/kg (liveweight) at the moment. Depending on how long you keep them, what are the chances of having to trim feet or deal with maggots etc? Between May & September is the main fly season & you always have to be vigilant. There are preventative chemicals & organic alternatives you can apply to reduce the risk of strike. These need reapplying at certain intervals depending upon weather conditions & the potency of the product in question. Feet need trimming up every few months, again depending on weather etc., but usually you do them when you gather for other purposes. |
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| tahir |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
I was hoping you'd say "well if you're only keeping them from say Apr-Oct you shouldn't have to worry about it" 
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| judith |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
Unless you are looking to bottle feed orphan lambs, isn't April rather early to be buying? Store lambs are hard to come by in these parts - everyone sells them as fat and ready for the butcher. Might be different over on your side of the country though. |
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| tahir |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
I don't know. Do you think I have any idea at all on this???? |
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| Rob R |
You could buy Christmas born lambs that haven't made the grade for the Easter market around April, not something I would recommend though. Some less intensive breeders aim for Christmas lambing too, but for 'seasonal' lamb, you are right Judith. | ||||||
| Rob R |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
There's never a time like that where livestock are concerned, that's why people pay folk like me to tear our hair out. 
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| tahir |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
Bugger, I'm already going bald. |
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| sally_in_wales |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
I make very fetching hairpieces, I could do you some plaits
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| tahir |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
In that case why not? |
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| judith |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
When he gets his sheep, he can make his own 
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| Rob R |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
It looks like it from the avatar
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| tahir |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
Happens to us all young Rob 
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| gil |
When to buy lambs depends on where you are (south-north), and when lambing happens. Plenty of store lambs around here and in hill areas.
Two possibilities occur to me (RobR, just say if I'm talking carp on the 2nd one) : 1. Because so many hill farmers (at least in Scotland) went organic, but lowland farmers did not, there has been, and I think still is, a surplus of organic store lambs. They would otherwise get sold on and conventionally fattened and sold as non-organic. 2. Cross-breeds that are bred as upland breeding stock, rather than for eating (such as Scotch Mules) : it's the ewe lambs that are wanted as mothers, not the wether (castrated male) lambs. So surplus male lambs, which are not considered 'easy' to fatten, and hence not much use, might be available cheaply. Just how hard is it to fatten them, what are they like as eating, and does it matter if they don't fill out ? : surely that's just a lean, light lamb, which might be fine. Also surplus purebred male hill lambs that don't make the grade as breeding tups, and may not fatten easily. |
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| tahir |
Another thing I've just realised, we're looking to go organic next year, that's going to cut my sourcing options down drastically isn't it? | ||||||
| Rob R |
Re: Keeping lambs for meat
I know! 
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| Rob R |
It is rather, one of the main problems with organics, can mean you end up carting inputs around more. A lot of pigs travel from Helen Brownings (at Swindon I think) organic farm to East Anglia for fattening & then back to be sold as meat
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| gil |
Tahir, if you're looking to buy about 20, that's a penful at an auction mart. Check out the organic livestock / store lamb sales nationally, and either go and bid yourself, or instruct a dealer you trust, or a local organic farmer who is going there to buy. Or get to know an organic farmer who does stores and go for private sale.
I'm sure there is also an on-line livestock auction at some marts. Can't remember what the name of the software is off-hand. |
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| tahir |
I hope to be going to a livestock market in October, just for research, apart from that I have no contacts at all in the field, it was never (really) part of my plan to have sheep. |
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| Rob R |
You'll certainly get better stock & buy in fewer problems that way. All our stock are fully integrated for traceability & peace of mind. Finding a pedigree breeder who produces predominately breeding stock is a good source, as chances are you will be getting well cared for stock & such breeders will be more interested in the breeding & show value of their stock, so may have a regular supply of quality clean lambs. The commercial flocks crossing for meat generally have their markets sorted or use the auctions. What gil highlights in the previous post is the highly stratified sheep industry we have in the UK. Hill breeds are often sold in the lowlands as stores, though tup lambs tend to finish quicker if you leave their tackle intact, but breed & weather does mean a lot of hill lambs are grazed as stores in the lowlands. |
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| Gervase |
Is there an emoticon for the sound of hollow laughter? 
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| tahir |
Have you got anything useful to say? |
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| Gervase |
Nothing at all. Rob and gil have very eloquently answered all you need - now the only thing that's stopping you from getting some store lambs is, erm, common sense. Listen, sheep have only two ambitions - to folow the sheep in front and to find a new and more interesting way to die. They will take over your life. You will lose friends/hair/sleep.
Are you sure you want to be an accidental shepherd?
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| tahir |
No, not at all. |
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| Rob R |
If only... 
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| tahir |
But having said that I have no ethical source of meat at the moment, something I feel pretty crap about. |
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| gil |
tahir wrote:
Breed, cross? Yer aving a larf. I want summat simple, docile and hardy. Some would say that sheep are simple. Some can be quite bright. Simple, docile and hardy are often mutually exclusive. Hill sheep are low maintenance, their feet are resistant to all sorts, and they can exist on very little forage so will often fatten on ordinary-good grazing. But they tend not to be docile ('wild as f***' is the term round here). Downland or lowland sheep are more docile, but can require more looking after. Suffolks would be OK, but the carcass can be a bit fat. Continentals (Texels and the like) are leaner, though also need tending. How good is your electric fencing ? I think Deano started a thread about what breed of sheep to get in Lincolnshire. Might be useful. Though with organic, the choice might be more restricted. Organic stores are likely to be cross-breeds (for meat). If you only want to overwinter and then eat the lambs, that might be the solution. Cheviots or Cheviot crosses are hardy, but are the easiest of the hill breeds to fatten (hence popular with organic farmers), and quite docile as they go. South Country Cheviots are smaller than Northies. Quite cute too. There's a breed association website somewhere. RobR would probably recommend Kerry Hill, but can you get them organic ? A sheep's ambition in life is to die. |
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| tahir |
Now that's the flipping scary bit.
As for everything else, at this stage we'll try any breed that's easy and available. They're going to have plenty of grass to feed on and at our density I can't imagine they'll need supplemements. We'll probably end up stock fencing the field, will I still need some electric for foxes? |
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| Gervase |
For simple and hardy, a mule or cross of some sort may be the answer. They don't have the built-in problems of pedigree strains when it comes to lambing and the like, the meat tastes just as good and they tend to be generally hardier and less susceptible to the thousand natural shocks that pure-bred sheep are heir to. | ||||||
| tahir |
Lambing No way mate.
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| Tavascarow |
It might be a cheaper option buying inlamb full mouths. I would have said 20 is to many for 3 acres. I wouldn't go more than 4 to the acre. 
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| Tavascarow |
Also if you use electric netting & fold them they utilise the grazing better/ have fewer worming issues. What do organic farmers use to worm?
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| tahir |
Wossat mean? I've no intention of keeping 20, might start with 4 or summat. |
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| Tavascarow |
An old ewe that is reaching the end of her commercial value. Hill farmers sell them off cheao in lamb. Would get around your organic problem as the lambs would be born on your holding.
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| tahir |
TC I need to come into this gentle like, never had pets or livestock. I don't want to be responsible for lambing and suchlike Maybe in a few years, right now I want the absolute easiest path into this.
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| Gervase |
Absolute easiest path is going to be store wethers - they're blokes, so there's no worries about the odd one being pregnant, they've got no nadgers so they're not (as) stroppy and you'll be slaughtering 'em (probably) before it's time to shear them.
Only snag is, if you want organic, you've got to source 'em from organic holdings, and may have to travel. |
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| gil |
Which is, I think, where my first post on this thread was heading, option 2. As I PMd, 'store' is likely to mean hill or hill-cross sheep that the farmer can't fatten cos the grazing ain't good enough, so he/she sells them on part-fattened to lowland farmers (like yerself) to finish off to eating size. Sales in the summer/early autumn. Some store hill options might be Cheviot or Black Welsh mountain, also possibly Shetland (small, not hill, but hardy). Scottish Blackface purebred or anything Swaledale : just don't go there . They have horns, and they're not afraid to use them. And they can jump.
Other advantages are they're no longer cute at that age, so your kids won;t get so attached to them; and they probably won't need fox-proof fencing cos they'll be big enough to fend for themselves. |
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| Rob R |
No I wouldn't, they may be the best available, but there just aren't the numbers available yet to supply the current demand. There is one certified organic farm near Carlisle just starting with Kerry Hills, and that is going to be a big flock, but they will be finishing their own stock. |
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| gil |
Who's that, and where ? Wonder of I know of them. |
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| Rob R |
I would think so: http://www.askertoncastle.co.uk/ |
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| gil |
Yeh, they're part of the Hadrian Organics crew. | ||||||
| Vic |
I can highly recommend their beef and lamb - well worth checking out, and good people too. Shall be interested to learn about the Kerry Hills... |
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| mochyn |
You've got me thinking now. Would you say that sheep give the least expensively produced meat? As opposed to pigs which I already have. I'm thinking 2 or 3 bought in at, say, 6 months and grown on until slaughter. I have a spare half acre (is there really such a thing?) and I'm sure I could buy animals from the neighbours.
You realise, the old chap is going to ban me from this site soon if I go on acquiring more stock, don't you? |
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| Rob R |
Not really, the costs are less up front, if that's what you mean. |
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| mochyn |
I was thinking of feed, in particular. Am I wrong in thinking they need lees bought-in feed? | ||||||
| Rob R |
If you have enough grass there isn't a need to buy any feed in. | ||||||
| mochyn |
That's what I thought. It's a lovely, grassy field, but I know I'd have to get feed in for the coldest months. And there's always plenty of advice to be had around here.
Oh hell, I feel a livestock buying soree coming on. Other women get away with buying shoes, but, oh no, not me. Livestock or nothing. Please don't anyone tell the old chap! |
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| judith |
Hate to tell you this, but I think he might notice! |
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| mochyn |
That's the benefit of very lumpy land. I can hide them behnid a lump. For a while. |
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| Penny Outskirts |
Then just act surprised, when they appear over the hill
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| mochyn |
I can imagine the conversation:
TOC: "Carwyn's bloody sheep are in the field again." Me: "Oh, are they dear?" TOC: "Hang on, that's our number on their ear tags..." Noise of swift footfall disappearing over the other hill... Me; (shouting from a great distance) "Do you fancy mutton for tea, dear?" |
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| pink bouncy |
LOL, thank you Mochyn. You've just made me feel normal.
(my thing is usually chickens or ducks or tiny goslings....) |
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| mochyn |
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| Hannah |
Thanks everyone for your replies to this ...
So, can I just clarify, I can slaughter a lamb at 4 months but I would need to feed additionally? What is the normal age for slaughter assuming it will only have grass to eat (and with that, are you supposed to give them extra feed in winter)? Many thanks Hannah |
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| mochyn |
We've reached a compromise: buying two lams from the neighbour and taking them straight to slaughter.
Less fun, but then we won't fall out either. |
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| Rob R |
At four months (assuming a March lambing) there shouldn't be any need for additional feeding other than mothers milk & grass. It depends upon the grass situation (ie how much you have) during the winter as to how much & what you will need to feed them during winter. |
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| Hannah |
Thanks for that Rob. I was only thinking of keeping about 3 or 4 on a field of around 1-1.5 acres.
At what age are they normally slaughtered then, if 4 months is a bit young? Many thanks Hannah |
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| Rob R |
At that rate I would expect they won't need much feeding throughout winter, maybe starting around Christmas through to early March.
I would say about 6 months is about the earliest I would slaughter a grass fed lamb, and from that point they improve with age. |
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| gil |
So you could therefore take them through to 8-9 months old on no extra feeding , assuming March lambing.
Sourcing organic store lambs : been discussing this with a local organic hill farmer. Best bet for those down south is to contact the Soil Association for contacts in your area, or use the Sales and Wants area of their website (which is, apparently, not easy to find on their site - I've never seen it - but it is there). There will be organic store lambs in Wales, but elsewhere..... ? |
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| tahir |
I'll need to talk to my OCIS advisor about this, for contacts and also for derogations, the halal slaughterhouse is not organic so we'd need to talk about that. |
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| Rob R |
Ah you mean http://www.soilassociation.org/organicmarketplace 
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| gil |
That's the one. And with store lambs for sale. | ||||||
| Rob R |
Some Beulah's sound good: http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/om.nsf/0/F6CC660058E28339802571D500522273 | ||||||
| @Calli |
Mochyn, that could have been me talking!!!! A lady of taste
1 pair jungle fowl, 1 pr mini black silkies and phoenix....... |
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| mochyn |
Does the Pheonix come with a fire extinguisher?
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