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Blue Sky

Life after BREXIT

So who's got the popcorn in for the show?
Shane

Me. Watching from the outside in despair at what my country has become (a world laughing stock, for one) as I wait for my application for French citizenship to go through.
tahir

Watching from the outside in despair at what my country has become (a world laughing stock, for one)


But we'll be a laughing stock that is finally independent of EVERYTHING, there ain't no rules gonna hold us back Rolling Eyes
dpack

der untergang with plastic beads and a pugin gothic revival setting.

"where are my ferries?" " the nukenips have betrayed me" " strong and stable "etc etc

on a cheery note saturday is the day when the referendum result would go the other way just on demographics. enough dead and enough enfranchised if each demographic group vote the same as in 16 Cool

it seems fairly certain quite a few who voted leave may have decided it was a bad idea and some of those who voted leave to stick it to cameron etc might well not vote to leave in another go.
Hairyloon



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/16/billboard-campaign-reminds-voters-of-mps-brexit-promises

Not sure if that image is displaying. It's not working for me, but neither is the yellow jacket.
Ty Gwyn

Which crossings are used for the French and German cars and wine?
Shan

Dover is the major route. https://on.ft.com/2Dh3Ory I have gifted this article, so you should be able to read it.


[/img]
Nick

Which crossings are used for the French and German cars and wine?


Greater than 90% of French wine exports won’t be impacted by Brexit. German Cars? Which ones? The BMWs and Minis made in the UK that are down scaling their prodiction, cancelling new factories and setting up in Eastern Europe? They go via Dover mostly. But the newly unemployed British workers won’t worry about that soon.
Why do you ask?
dpack

dover is also a RSG ( or whatever they call them these days ) so as well as the port issues there could well be strategic route and security considerations to consider if the castle goes active " in support of the civilian powers" Ty Gwyn

Actually,i was thinking more of Audi,Peugeot,Renault etc,but you can add a large list of Agri equipment to that.

I seem to remember a number of firms transferring to the EU and outside it before 2016,what`s new.
tahir

what`s new.

New Holland tractors at Basildon is a shell of what it used to be, as is Ford at Dagenham. Ford have been talking about making Dagenham one of their main electric drivetrain providers, this will not happen if our deal is a bad one, in the case of no deal I guess they'll sell all their high land value sites in Essex and move those functions somewhere cheaper.
Shan

We have also seen the EBA & the EMA move to Europe. This will translate to the relocation of assorted offices of major pharmaceutical companies, financial institutions, and their associated lobbyists and consultancies. dpack

hitachi and toshiba have decided not to fund and construct the sellafied and wylfa reactors which leave about a third of the planned replacement capacity still ongoing, ongoing includes at least one that might never get finished due to technical/admin issues and iirc 2 that have been thought about but not fully committed to .

overall the 30% of base load that nuke was to supply is now less than 10% organised and the last few existing plants are overdue for decommissioning already.

ie a shortfall to base load of about 20% which is rather less than the few % above grid failures base load we have at the mo

on the subject of logistics dover alone does over 15000 wagons a day, there will be only 5000 lorry permits for the uk to operate in the eu so most cross border movement would be in eu lorries and they will not want the job if it involves a day driving and a week in traffic jams and customs.
there was mention of a short term permit for uk firms to do a direct journey in either direction but unless you have a return load permit that is unlikely to be a good business model ( and see delay issues )

on the subject of logistics does anyone fancy the job as a ni/roi border guard apart from a smuggler's brother in law Laughing

on the subject of ni the idea of a thousand mainlaind reinforcements to support the psni in case of civil unrest is so mental one can only think there are some who would favour a remilitarisation of the 6 counties.
to get close to the militarisation levels of the troubles would require most of the mod resources available for the whole uk just to deal with less than 2% of the total population,
looking at that in the other direction to achieve troubles level of militarisation in the rest of the uk would require an extra million or so personnel
10000 regular and 40000 reservists are barely enough to be short staffed in south london

my conclusion is such mod personnel would not be policing or delivering care packages but would be guarding the assets of hmg and securing the infrastructure of the emergency plans , even containing an angry city on the move and seeking food would be outside the scope of those force numbers

ps civilians are a problem rather in need of help in most emergency plans of this nature.
Shan

FT Article on the effect of Customs Delays:


Six-day queues into Dover feared under no-deal Brexit scenario

Trucks would face six-day queues to board ferries at Dover if new customs checks in the event of a no-deal Brexit were to delay each vehicle by just 70 seconds, according to government-commissioned research.

A summary of the analysis obtained by the Financial Times claims extra processing time of 80 seconds per truck would lead to “no recovery” — described by an official as widespread permanent gridlock.

The research, carried out by academics at University College London for the Department for Transport, will add to misgivings about the potential disruption of a disorderly exit from the EU. The research was presented to ministers in 2017 but never published.

On Monday the DfT conducted a live rehearsal of an emergency traffic system that will be introduced to prevent congestion at Dover in such circumstances. The trial used just 89 trucks to test out the disused Manston Airport, which will be used as a car park for 6,000 trucks under the contingency plans.

The Port of Dover, which handles up to 10,000 trucks a day, believes no-deal Brexit would lead to 17-mile tailbacks, while the government has estimated there will be an extra 200m customs declarations a year.

The UCL research was based on the impact of different processing times for outbound journeys using Dover’s existing layout and traffic flows. It anticipates that extra customs checks of up to 40 seconds per vehicle would have no impact on the queueing time for outward journeys through Dover.

However, that changes dramatically when the additional delays are only slightly longer. With a further 60 seconds of checks, officials anticipate queues of six to eight hours on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, when traffic is particularly heavy.

If delays reach 70 seconds per truck, a queue of between 1,200 and 2,724 heavy goods vehicles is expected, leading to tailbacks taking six days. “[The queue] starts Monday evening and ends by Saturday noon,” according to the analysis.

If the processing time goes up to 80 seconds the result would simply be “no recovery”, it says.

“‘No recovery’ would mean the whole country is in a traffic jam,” said one official.

A DfT spokesperson said: “This analysis was undertaken by a third-party consultant two years ago and is not the current analysis on which the government is making its Brexit preparations.”

A department official said the UCL research was only one of “a number of documents commissioned” since the 2016 EU referendum. “Our main priority is to ensure that we get agreement with the EU, and, failing that, getting an agreement with the French authorities.”

Separate research by Imperial College London has predicted “paralysis” on the M20 motorway and A20 trunk road if new customs delays are introduced.

Ke Han of Imperial predicted nearly five hours of traffic delays in Kent at peak times, with an extra two minutes spent on each vehicle at the border tripling existing queues on the M20/A20 to 29 miles.

Current security and passport checks take up to two minutes, according to one estimate by Dr Han, but freight vehicles do not have to complete customs declarations, which could change under a no-deal Brexit.

Updated advice to government departments from officials last week warned that there could be six months of reduced access and delays at Dover and nearby Folkestone if there was no deal. That was dismissed as “Project Fear on steroids” by Andrew Bridgen, a Tory Brexiter MP.
Ty Gwyn

Won`t there also be queue`s in Calais and other EU ports,or am I missing something in cross channel trade? Shan

There probably will be some queues however, bear in mind that the 27 EU members can trade freely with each other across their borders, so the impact is largely reduced for them. Hairyloon

The queues will all be reduced by not having all that traffic to & from the car plants that have moved abroad, likewise all the other industry that's running away. Ty Gwyn

Makes one wonder why a well established German company like Thyssen Krupp would want to buy into Tata at Port Talbot,


And Australian backers to the tune of 165 million to open a coking coal colliery in Cumbria,when the bulk of that coal would go through Rotterdam.
Shan

Makes one wonder why a well established German company like Thyssen Krupp would want to buy into Tata at Port Talbot,


And Australian backers to the tune of 165 million to open a coking coal colliery in Cumbria,when the bulk of that coal would go through Rotterdam.

No one is saying life is going to stop but it is undeniable that the economy is going to suffer. It has already started with reduced inward investment. One thing the UK had going for it was that we were the doorway to the EU and the business environment was fairly good. We have thrown that away. I'm not sure how much we will have to lose before people decide it's not worth it.

I fear the only way people are going to realise what Brexit actually means is when it hits them in their pocket and by then it will be too late.
Ty Gwyn

Considering the high unemployment already in the EU its not going to be so rosy over there either,but of course they cannot allow us to have a decent break with common sense trade to continue as the whole place is on the verge of breaking up. Shan

People have predicting the break up of the EU for some time now. It's not happened. Brits seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding about why the EU came about and what principles are important to them. Ty Gwyn

The 6 countries that were involved in the Iron,Steel and Coal organisation in the 50`s to help get Europe back on its feet after the destruction of the war. Shan

????? Hairyloon

Makes one wonder why a well established German company like Thyssen Krupp would want to buy into Tata at Port Talbot...

Don't Tata build really really cheap cars? Or they had plans to, possibly built with low tech?
Seems ideal for post Brexit Britain.
Ty Gwyn

That was the start of the EU Ty Gwyn

Makes one wonder why a well established German company like Thyssen Krupp would want to buy into Tata at Port Talbot...

Don't Tata build really really cheap cars? Or they had plans to, possibly built with low tech?
Seems ideal for post Brexit Britain.


I believe they do back in India,where they also built tractors and a lot of other things,also involved in coal mining.

But TATA in the UK,run Steel Works where they took of from Corus the Dutch company.
dpack

finton otoole has a pretty good grip of the realities and possibilities.

do i want a coking plant anywhere at the mo? not much, cumbria has enough problems without that.
their motive , it has sellafield so we can get away with owt less than that. perhaps?
do i understand correctly coal in via rott.? does that include coke out same route?
ie offshoring the messy bit to cumbria for the australians profit or have i misunderstood the nature of their game?

at a guess krupps got a bargain and/or has a plan to asset strip them of talent etc and/or to exploit a captive economy with few bits of "red tape" for special projects if they plan on staying in case of a meltdown.
Ty Gwyn

I don`t know where you got a coking plant from,that`s news to me,
Its a coking coal mine near Whitehaven.

There`s not a great need of vast amounts of coking coal in the UK at present given the number of steel works here,so its export,mainly Germany,and the coal export port for Europe is Rotterdam.


Any business must have a profit or its a dead duck,its a very ambitious project,mining far beyond any previous workings,ie.Haig,


Look it up,Woodhouse mine ,or West Cumbria Mining,they were going to be utilising the existing drifts of an Anhydrite mine,but due to pumping I realise the plan now is for new drifts,2mls to reach the reserves.

Krupps have bought into Tata,not taken over.
dpack

ok dig it up n ship it out is the plan .
a bit like mineral extraction in the drc or nigeria , a few local get "rich" some workers to eat when they are useful and the profits head to the foreign backers

considering we dont need more steel at the moment and we might later plus burning coal for any reason seems a little rash considering the current climate science might it be better to leave it where it is , at least until later.?
dpack

tata and krupps may have similar plans. Ty Gwyn

Digging it out and shipping it out has gone on for well over 150yrs,and nothing like Nigeria and the Congo,if this project comes off and is successful,which many have doubts,the workers will be eating very well on todays wages,regarding the profits going to foreign backers,there are plenty of concerns in the UK today where the profit goes abroad,lol.


The EU will disagree with you on whether more steel is needed,its the backbone of the German economy.
Shan

The EU protected the UK from itself with anti-dumping measures against China. Shan

tata and krupps may have similar plans.
Corus has been an unmitigated disaster for Tata. Good luck to Krupps.
Ty Gwyn

tata and krupps may have similar plans.
Corus has been an unmitigated disaster for Tata. Good luck to Krupps.

In what way?
Shan

Profitability is poor and pensions are a massive problem. I’ll send you a PM tomorrow Ty Gwyn

But surely if one takes over a company one takes over all business concerns,including pensions,i know its been in the news about the deficit in the pension funds,but that was for Tata to check out,

The same happened with UK Coal,but they were clever or should I say sneaky ,they split their business in 2,Harworth Holdings the property side and UK Coal the mining side,when they started closing the Collieries it came to light about the deficit in the pensions,but a government set up company now had taken on the liability of the pension deficit,even though the original company owns umpteen millions worth of property and land.
Hairyloon

The EU protected the UK from itself with anti-dumping measures against China.
Didn't we vote against that?
Shan

The EU protected the UK from itself with anti-dumping measures against China.
Didn't we vote against that?
Yes, we did.
Shan

But surely if one takes over a company one takes over all business concerns,including pensions,i know its been in the news about the deficit in the pension funds,but that was for Tata to check out,

The same happened with UK Coal,but they were clever or should I say sneaky ,they split their business in 2,Harworth Holdings the property side and UK Coal the mining side,when they started closing the Collieries it came to light about the deficit in the pensions,but a government set up company now had taken on the liability of the pension deficit,even though the original company owns umpteen millions worth of property and land.

Tata underestimated the problems they would encounter in terms of pensions and profit. They have moved those they can move from DB to DC pensions but that still leaves a a big money hole to fill. In terms of profit, they had hoped for efficiencies and for the price of steel to rise. Unfortunately, energy prices have had a massive impact as well as climate change policies (not to mention cheap Chinese steel). All in all, there's a variety of factors that have not helped. At one point, Tata was losing more than £1million a day.
Ty Gwyn

I seem to remember the workforce vote,keep jobs for a reduced pension.

Yes they had been losing money at the plant,
And regarding the energy prices,i remember being at a presentating in the Mining Engineers Institute in Cardiff when they were considering the Margam Mine project with the 2 drifts from within the steel works compound,it was nothing but a carbon trading exerc
ise,with the only benefit of a regular supply of coking coal,and they spent Millions on exploratory borings,on top of previous NCB borings.

But they have reduced their energy supply at the plant with the using of gases off the coking plant to generate electricity
Shan

...and yet... it's still not working... Ty Gwyn

...and yet... it's still not working...

Yet strangely enough Thyssen Krupp buy`s into the ailing company with Brexit around the corner,there`s something in the wind.
Hairyloon

...and yet... it's still not working...

Yet strangely enough Thyssen Krupp buy`s into the ailing company with Brexit around the corner,there`s something in the wind.
Perhaps he thinks that Brexit is not around the corner...
Ty Gwyn

...and yet... it's still not working...

Yet strangely enough Thyssen Krupp buy`s into the ailing company with Brexit around the corner,there`s something in the wind.
Perhaps he thinks that Brexit is not around the corner...

The Eyes of March are upon you,lol
Shan

...and yet... it's still not working...

Yet strangely enough Thyssen Krupp buy`s into the ailing company with Brexit around the corner,there`s something in the wind.

Tata also bought an ailing company and now they're selling.
Ty Gwyn

...and yet... it's still not working...

Yet strangely enough Thyssen Krupp buy`s into the ailing company with Brexit around the corner,there`s something in the wind.

Tata also bought an ailing company and now they're selling.

I was under the impression it was a buy into not a buy out,

But saying that,it could be the first step.
Shan

Tata have been wanting to sell for a while. This might be the only option available to them. Ty Gwyn

I agree,they have been trying to sell for a while,

But don`t you think a German company buying into this UK based business,after the Brexit vote is rather odd,if everything is supposed to go down the pan.
dpack

no, buy in cheap, keep the good bits, sell or abandon the rest.

classic vulture capitalism
krupps are not fluffy
Ty Gwyn

Your right on the first bit,it was a cheap buy in,no money has changed hands,its a straight amalgamation of the 2 companies with a work force of around 48,000 workers,that only includes if I`m correct Tata UK and the works in Holland,and apparently Krupps also have a pension deficit.


Be interesting how it pans out.
Shan

I agree,they have been trying to sell for a while,

But don`t you think a German company buying into this UK based business,after the Brexit vote is rather odd,if everything is supposed to go down the pan.

Chaos economics is notorious for producing asset deals. This would not have been Tata's first, second or even third choice but it's likely to be their only choice. Jacob Rees' Mogg's father wrote a book on how creating political and economic instability produces massive opportunities for those with money to make more money.... funny how his son seems to be helping with exactly that.

Frankly, pointing to Tata and saying 'surely Brexit can't be that bad' is like hiding your head under the duvet and saying 'if I can't see the danger, it doesn't exist'.
Ty Gwyn

I agree,they have been trying to sell for a while,

But don`t you think a German company buying into this UK based business,after the Brexit vote is rather odd,if everything is supposed to go down the pan.

Chaos economics is notorious for producing asset deals. This would not have been Tata's first, second or even third choice but it's likely to be their only choice. Jacob Rees' Mogg's father wrote a book on how creating political and economic instability produces massive opportunities for those with money to make more money.... funny how his son seems to be helping with exactly that.

Frankly, pointing to Tata and saying 'surely Brexit can't be that bad' is like hiding your head under the duvet and saying 'if I can't see the danger, it doesn't exist'.


I don`t believe I used them words,None of us really know the outcome,its just guess work on all parts,

Maybe the new company will scrap Port Talbot and sell the land for development,Maybe Thyssen Krupp will develop the Margam Coking coal mine,vast experience in Thyssen of mining development,and the fact Germany has stopped mining hard coal,


Like I said,It will be interesting how it pans out.
Nick

So much of it isn’t guesswork tho. So much of it is written down and measurable. Shan

I agree,they have been trying to sell for a while,

But don`t you think a German company buying into this UK based business,after the Brexit vote is rather odd,if everything is supposed to go down the pan.

Chaos economics is notorious for producing asset deals. This would not have been Tata's first, second or even third choice but it's likely to be their only choice. Jacob Rees' Mogg's father wrote a book on how creating political and economic instability produces massive opportunities for those with money to make more money.... funny how his son seems to be helping with exactly that.

Frankly, pointing to Tata and saying 'surely Brexit can't be that bad' is like hiding your head under the duvet and saying 'if I can't see the danger, it doesn't exist'.


I don`t believe I used them words,None of us really know the outcome,its just guess work on all parts,

Maybe the new company will scrap Port Talbot and sell the land for development,Maybe Thyssen Krupp will develop the Margam Coking coal mine,vast experience in Thyssen of mining development,and the fact Germany has stopped mining hard coal,


Like I said,It will be interesting how it pans out.
No it really isn't guesswork. We KNOW what we currently have with the EU and we know we can not possibly get as good a deal as we currently have with them when we leave. We know this will impact our economy because we know that the EU is our biggest trading partner. In addition, any sane person will realise that we will not be able to replicate or get better deals with the rest of the world, than what the EU has negotiated on behalf of its members because we will not have the same level of political influence or negotiating power. An analogy for you: Imagine that the various branches of Tesco are EU members; their combined buying power gives them the ability to negotiate much better deals than the local corner shop is able to. The UK has been reduced to being the local corner shop. The ROW will not give the UK better deals than they do the EU because what you do not do, is piss off your biggest customer.
Ty Gwyn

That anology you mention ,is exactly what Thyssen Krupp/Tate are aiming at,on a larger scale to negotiate better priceings for raw materials. Shan

....and so was Tata but sometimes those efficiencies are not enough. sean

I see that the lovely Mr Dyson is relocating his company to Singapore.
P&O are reflagging to Cyprus.
It's all going swimmingly.
Shan

I see that the lovely Mr Dyson is relocating his company to Singapore.
P&O are reflagging to Cyprus.
It's all going swimmingly.
Absolutely....I wonder how long Brexiteers can carry on telling us that it will be "worth it"?
Ty Gwyn

Is he taking his near on 40,000 acres of England with him? Shan

Is he taking his near on 40,000 acres of England with him?
It's a good thing he can't. He is however signifying 3 things:

1.) He doesn't believe Britain is capable of performing on a global platform

2.) The importance of proximity to your main market. Singapore gives him good access to his growing Asian markets.

3.) Singapore has signed a free trade deal with the EU - he's future proofed his business against Brexit. The EU is clearly more important than he's willing to admit.
Nick

Is he taking his near on 40,000 acres of England with him?

No. Not any of his workers. They can suck it up. Don’t imagine that the super rich will suffer here.
Shan

I see that the lovely Mr Dyson is relocating his company to Singapore.
P&O are reflagging to Cyprus.
It's all going swimmingly.
You can add Sony to that list.
dpack

and a serious forex player

and a couple of others
Shan

JPMorgan: “hundreds” of jobs from London to Dublin, Frankfurt, Germany, & Luxembourg.

Lloyd’s: 100 jobs from London to Brussels; new HQ in Dublin

HSBC: 1,000 jobs from London to Paris, which will be their new HQ

European Banking Authority: moving office and 180 jobs from London to Paris

Moneygram: moving HQ from London to Brussels.

Barclays: 150 jobs from London to Dublin, Dublin to be new HQ

European Medicines Agency: moving office and 890 jobs from London to Amsterdam (were responsible for 40,000 hotel bookings in London each year)

Bank of America: moving HQ from London to Dublin.
UBS: just under 1,000 jobs from London to offices in the EU, including Frankfurt.

There are plenty more... but I'm not bored enough yet to continue listing...
dpack

there are the academic and technical benefits, oops my mistake

in fairly dark moments i could consider the greatest brexit bonus to be that it may give me opportunity to unleash my full skill set Twisted Evil i wont tell and it is best not to ask.

in more fluffy ones i cannot see anything that needs changing is prevented from being changed by being a full EU member and there are so many advantages to assorted countries planning as a group especially as the biggest issue is a global climate/6th extinction one not whether or not somebody can secretly offshore their profits to avoid taxation where those profits were generated.

a united states of europe with a federal and local framework would be a decent bet for a safe and stable continent, churchill thought so, he had many serious faults but he was correct on that matter

or i could sign up with nazis, vulture capitalists and the less charming members of the tory party . where do i contract a long infective period class 4 virus so i can go on a hugathon?
dpack

brexit sucks

and just for fun mogg has gone full chas one/1930's by suggesting taking back control was for him not for the unbelievers in the HOC so therefore the HOC should be prorogued to prevent a total refusal of a "no deal " withdrawal.

the Friday Club protocols seems like a good basis for a contemporary response to such a suggestion.
Nick

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/henry-hoover-voted-remain-20190123181694 Shan

I've always thought Henry & Hetty were more trustworthy.... must be the eyes.... Wink dpack

pah experts what do they know Shan

"If the supposed route to prosperity for post Brexit “global Britain” lies through a global lattice work of preferential trade deals, how can one possibly seriously argue that the ONLY bloc with which one does not need a free trade deal is the one with which one does easily the largest volumes of trade?

And if a preferential trade deal with the EU is, in practice, essential, then you obviously gain nothing by tumbling completely out to WTO rules, and then having to try and scramble your way back up the hill to a preferential deal, under huge time pressure, notably in those many sectors and issues on which a resort to WTO rules gives you nothing."

This is the bit I never understand about Brexiteers who claim WTO will be a clean Brexit.
Nick

Wetherspoons issues £30m drop in profits warning due to Brexit.

Absolutely crying with laughter.
Shan

Wetherspoons issues £30m drop in profits warning due to Brexit.

Absolutely crying with laughter.
Brilliant.... Laughing
dpack

that warms the cockles of my heart, bless the free market Laughing Laughing Laughing

maybe my sales slump thought was a reasonable as well as the wasted propaganda aspect of the maildrop spoonnews that fell in the letterbox yesterday

i did not like the look of the egg on a bun thing, no sir it was ugly .

tis rather daft to do a ratner to half the population and upset a lot of the staff even if half the punters are going to stay on side

a beer hall putsch with the spooners as the storm troops would be messy but rather funny once it was hosed up .

never underestimate etc but an afternoon in a barnsley spoons is quite an education .
a bank holiday monday is even better.

they now have unicorn gin with "added sparkle " glinty manure , how quaint
Hairyloon

http://www.europeanscom.eu/companies-that-support-brexit-and-the-companies-that-support-the-eu/?fbclid=IwAR2nx8h_h7nuNOnN2EKFTnCbjvx6iLofzf6gw9EvwwG1hZ9U3TP9dECWFp4 Hairyloon

Quote:
David Davis has just disclosed a new £60,000-a-year job at JCB, whose chairman is pro-Brexit Anthony Bamford


https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/190121/davis_david.htm
Shan

Frankly, if anyone decides to hire that tit, they deserve him. Mistress Rose

Nice to know Weatherspoons is finally finding out what Brexit means; pity it didn't happen earlier. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke!

We found it convenient for meals, but son and DIL stopped going in there when the started supporting Brexit, so we didn't go with them and don't go on our own.
Nick

Bad language alert.

Satire is dead. This could be true.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/the-wetherspoons-customers-guide-to-a-no-deal-brexit-20190124181714?fbclid=IwAR1L9NmQAPVQmfMrsdtf2ila3zvMA_KaKlnMXos9XFz-izSgRI2tGppHlI0
Shan

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.... Shan

dpack

Cool
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