Not just the bees being affected by neonics.

oldish chris

a little while ago, it was reported:

Quote:

Scientists have found that two types of chemicals called neonicotinoids and coumaphos are interfering with the insect's ability to learn and remember.

Experiments revealed that exposure was also lowering brain activity, especially when the two pesticides were used in combination.

ref http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21958547

and at the top of the food chain are the middle class twits that read the Telegraph. Explains things.

Rob R

Insecticide harms insects; who'd a' thought it.

Mistress Rose

It should be possible to analyse soil samples for neonics over a period, assuming they are in measurable concentrations. Similarly run off in streams.

oldish chris

Insecticide harms insects; who'd a' thought it.

the thing about this evolution lark is not a lot of stuff gets designed from scratch, very often bits are old stuff are adapted for a different use. Hence, our brains have bits in common with an insect's brain, us having had a common ancestor, all be it ~500 million years ago.

Mistress Rose

It is a question of concentration of the poison though. Some things like arsenic were thought to be a good stimulant in the past in small quantities, but of course they are deadly in higher concentrations.

oldish chris

my view of the problem with toxins is that at a sufficient high dosage the toxicity is obvious, the target dies. At lower concentrations the deleterious affects are not obvious and large scale studies are needed to be able to identify the damage. That in turn means that someone needs motivating to conduct such a study.

(Arsenic in drinking water, at concentrations measured in part per million, increases the risk of dying from heart disease Ref: http://www.livescience.com/39886-arsenic-heart-disease.html )

I suspect that we may be in danger of violent agreement Wink

Mistress Rose

No, I don't think so. I won't dispute that in an ideal world there would be no contamination from pesticides, nitrates etc. Currently neonics are arch enemy number one with most people except farmers, some of whom aren't sure how they are going to manage without them. They managed for years, so sure they will find a way.

Whether neonics are more dangerous than other pesticides will only be known in several decades time. When I was a child, DDT was sprayed around the house with gay abandon. I expect it has done something nasty to me and others of my generation, and it certainly wasn't good for birds, but what effects it has on humans in relatively low doses, I don't really know.

As for arsenic and one or two other nasties, it seems to be a matter of sensitivity. Market gardening used to be carried out in Devon on a heavily arsenic infested soil until it was discovered that low doses increased the risk of heart disease and lettuce was very good at picking it up. Not sure if the death rate has decreased as the drinking water is soft, and that isn't good for the heart either.

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