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sally_in_wales

Re-siting a toilet

Not content with having an indoor loo with electric lights and flushing water, we're contemplating going to the giddy heights of moving the toilet upstairs to join the rest of the bathroom so we can reclaim the space for a proper pantry with room for a freezer. The building work itself we know how to do, plumbing in things like the bath and sink in a new place is no problem, but we've never re-sited a loo before, and I'm finding myself slightly boggled by the logistics of how you make sure the soil pipe ends up back in the sewer, not to mention how you get a new pipe through 2 foot of stone wall and then to the sewer which I suspect is going to involve lifting the manhole fittings, doing horrible things with concrete and putting it all back together again.

Anyone done anything similar and able to make any suggestions of things to research before we start planning this in detail? Probably won't happen for a few months, but if I can get my head round the logistics is more likely to happen than if I keep worrying about how to make it all match up.
Mary-Jane

I'm sure Gervase will give you some tips later Sally - he's been laying a customer's new floor (lime of course) all weekend (and has even missed the rugby for it Shocked) But he'll be back later so I'll give him a nudge...after he's cooked supper of course. Wink

Now, is there someone around who could peel me a grape please...? queen
Gervase

Where does your current khazi deliver its load to the sewer? Does it go through the wall or does your current soil pipe disappear into the floor with no sign of owt outside? Is your manhole a rectanbgule cast-iron job with concrete and clay inside, or a round thing with plastic innards?
If there is an outside 'presence' that makes life easier, provided your new new throne is on the same side of the house to your current throne. Getting a 110mm hole through the wall is the easiest part of it - you can do it the messy way with a hammer and chisel, or the quick and easy way with a core drill. Once through, though, the new thunderbox has to connect with a soil stack which is vented at the top and which connects with your sewage system at the bottom.
Email me a quick sketch, mezzotint or dagguerotype if you want, and I'll offer what advice I can.
jema

Speaking of core drills, I have a 110mm and a 127mm core drill now, that downsizers can borrow.
Green Man

I know of a house (rural) where the owner has fantastic views. He placed his new toilet in the middle of the room looking out the upstairs window so he could admire the view. My wife came from a house that also had an outside loo, she too says she enjoyed leaving the door open to enjoy the view on a summers day. Rolling Eyes
I asked her about her privacy, and she said she kicked it shut when she heard feet on the gravel.
hedgewitch

Cho-ku-ri wrote:
I know of a house (rural) where the owner has fantastic views. He placed his new toilet in the middle of the room looking out the upstairs window so he could admire the view. My wife came from a house that also had an outside loo, she too says she enjoyed leaving the door open to enjoy the view on a summers day. Rolling Eyes
I asked her about her privacy, and she said she kicked it shut when she heard feet on the gravel.


Or learn to whistle, then people know where you are... Shocked Laughing
sally_in_wales

Gervase wrote:
Where does your current khazi deliver its load to the sewer? Does it go through the wall or does your current soil pipe disappear into the floor with no sign of owt outside? Is your manhole a rectanbgule cast-iron job with concrete and clay inside, or a round thing with plastic innards?.


It goes straight down into the floor, and just outside the wall, maybe a couple of feet away is the manhole cover (rectangular).

We actually want to move the bathroom upstairs more or less directly over it, but 6 foot to the left, so we did consider having the waste pipe go straight up or up with an angle in it, and boxing it in. The space that is now the loo will ultimately house a freezer, so its a not as if we'd be offending anyone with odd gurgling noises when the loo was flushed.
thos

We have a play area at one end of the first floor between two bedrooms, which we planned on closing off and turning into a bathroom for the sprogs. When we had the chaps in to give us a quote, they pointed out that my idea of taking the effluent out through the wall and into the drainpipe was not only stupid but illegal as the pipe could freeze.

The effluent has to stay indoors until it goes underground, so I would have to have the pipe going through the floor and down through the lounge to the garage, then under the garage floor to the drain.

Plans have therefore been postponed until after the lottery win.
Gervase

I'm sorry Thos, but you need to call in another builder who doesn't fob you off with such nonsense. There is nothing in building regs (specifically approved document H1, which concerns bogs) to state that soil stacks should be internal. In fact in most residential buildings other than new builds and bungalows they are external.

Sally - it's a reasonably straightforward job to take a soil pipe down to ground level and then feed it into the existing manhole. It does involve a bit of digging, however, and possibly a new manhole (one of the modern round ones).
Cost-wise, it's a days' work for a builder and a day for a plumber, plus material costs. Manholes are around 80, and pipework is fairly cheap these days - and, of course, you'll need the throne and cistern, unless you're reusing the old one (which can be a problem if it's ancient as they can be hard to get out without damage).
Nick

Even in Belgium/Holland? Wink
sally_in_wales

Gervase wrote:


Sally - it's a reasonably straightforward job to take a soil pipe down to ground level and then feed it into the existing manhole. It does involve a bit of digging, however, and possibly a new manhole (one of the modern round ones).
Cost-wise, it's a days' work for a builder and a day for a plumber, plus material costs. Manholes are around 80, and pipework is fairly cheap these days - and, of course, you'll need the throne and cistern, unless you're reusing the old one (which can be a problem if it's ancient as they can be hard to get out without damage).


Cool Smile I think we'll probably get all new bathroom fittings if we are redoing the lot, so its just working out whether its worth hacking through 2 foot of stone and coaldust to take the piping outside or just live with the internal pipe in the freezer room. If we do that we can probably do virtually all the work ourselves
Behemoth

They may do things differently because that's the way they're always have been done but if 'freezing' is the reason it's a load of poo. The vertical or angled fall with a flush behind it should mean that it all plops into the sewer without hinderence.
thos

Behemoth wrote:
They may do things differently because that's the way they're always have been done but if 'freezing' is the reason it's a load of poo. The vertical or angled fall with a flush behind it should mean that it all plops into the sewer without hinderence.

It usually drops below freezing for a few weeks here, with a max of -5 or so. Probably no worse than NE Scotland though, and if outside efflux doesn't cause problems there it shouldn't here.

The rules here were probably designed to include the Ardennes (remember the Battle of the Bulge) which every year has six months of freezing weather and then winter comes.

Good news for Sally then.
Behemoth

It would have to be very cold to freeze a deposit that quick!
Gervase

nickhowe wrote:
Even in Belgium/Holland? Wink

Doh! That'll teach me to look at the location Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
Windymiller

Cho-ku-ri wrote:
I know of a house (rural) where the owner has fantastic views. He placed his new toilet in the middle of the room looking out the upstairs window so he could admire the view. My wife came from a house that also had an outside loo, she too says she enjoyed leaving the door open to enjoy the view on a summers day. Rolling Eyes
I asked her about her privacy, and she said she kicked it shut when she heard feet on the gravel.


My outside convenience doorway overlooks a field, sometimes a pair of brown eyes can be seen observing one's activities, but I don't mind being seen by a cow!
Treacodactyl

Gervase wrote:
Getting a 110mm hole through the wall is the easiest part of it - you can do it the messy way with a hammer and chisel, or the quick and easy way with a core drill.


I also plan to move our toilet location and think the best bet is to replace the manhole and have an external soil stack. The toilet outlet can then go straight out through the wall. The question I have is does the pipe need to be sleeved? It's a standard twin brick cavity wall.

As it involves drain work I'll have to get the building inspector (another 100 or so) in but I always like to know what I'm talking about before contacting them.
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