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Barefoot Andrew

Remodelling an attic conversion into two kids' bedrooms?

What sort of things do I need to be thinking about or aware of? I'm thinking practically and regulatory.

My attic conversion is currently a single space, with an entry stair case at one end, a dormer window at the other. A ceiling light and double socket are located approximately centrally. For survey purposes the space can never technically be a 'bedroom'; I thus have a two-bedroom house with an attic conversion.

The plan is to remodel this space into two kids' 'bedrooms', using stud walling. One would have the benefit of the existing dormer window; the other would require a skylight-style window installation.

First question. Ideally we'd create a little corridor from the stair access, with the two rooms being independently accessible. But this is going to be a cosy fit. Clearly we'd want to avoid a corridor-less scenario, with the second room being access via the first. But are there any regulatory issues which prohibit this anyway?

Second question. The existing single light will need splitting into three separate lights - one each for the 'rooms' and the third for the corridor. Until I do some investigations I'm not clear on what loop circuitry is available at the existing fitting. Assuming the right circuits are available, I can do the rewiring myself - with the appropriate regs inspection afterwards of course. Are there any regulatory prohibitions to divvying up into three a circuit that was intended as one?

Third question. The current double socket is located cleanly within one of the new rooms' domains. Clearly we'll need to make provision for the second room to have a power outlet. Again, without investigations I'm not clear what circuitry is available, and whether an 'extension' would manifest as a spur or as another point on the ring. There is even a possibility that this double socket is already a spur from the first floor ring.

Are they any practical or regulatory obstacles to simply side-stepping this conundrum, and running two four-way extension gangs from the double socket. One for room A, the other for room B? This would be virtually identical to the usage and loading placed on the double socket as used at present.

Ta in advance for any comments...
A.
T.G

You'd need a fire door to stop the stairs acting like a chimney and drawing up any smoke etc.

Lights are not on a loop or circuit back to the fuse board they are on a string so one can be easily added to the existing.

Sockets do form part of a ring and it would be necessary to see if you've got them on the same, some houses are wired that all bedrooms have their own fuse but not necessarily on older wiring as bedroom 'loads' were always thought to be pretty limited (I know now that's not the case) so would have been put on the same ring. It is possible to run one spur from any ring without it causing issue, but you may have a spur already without your knowledge.
Barefoot Andrew

Ta for the comments. I'm not too fussed about the technical aspects of wiring and loading - I'm an engineer and am able in the workings of mains electricity.

I'm more concerned about the potential infringement of regs - and the knock-on effect it could have on surveys and potential sales of the future.

I like the idea of changes to stud partitioning and mains sockets being 'temporary' - i.e. being easily removable, and clearly not part of the building fabric. Hence my leaning towards using extension gangs for the sockets.

A.
Barefoot Andrew

Interesting comment about fire door though. There isn't one now to the existing single space - and whilst this would be mentioned on a survey, it wouldn't preclude a future house sale.

If we remodel the space as discussed, would a fire door become a requirement?

On a related note, the ground floor dining room has a door at the bottom of the staircase to the first floor. I have never used this door - in fact it's propped open. It also collides when open with a wall light.

I've often toyed with removal of this door altogether - with the idea that it could be replaced for the purposes of a future sale. Any prohibition to this?

A.
Penny Outskirts

Have you considered curtains rather than walls?
Barefoot Andrew

We need to provide proper secluded spaces for a 12 and 10 year old. Curtains don't cut the mustard.
A.
Penny Outskirts

No, prolly not. Thinking about it, ours were a bit younger.

Have you thought about using shelving?
Barefoot Andrew

Have you thought about using shelving?


Putting the kids into storage until they're old enough to work? Laughing

I'm not sure that merely partitioning a space will be sufficient; I suspect that proper 'rooms' will be required. However, shelving isn't something I'd thought of, and is worthy of more pondering.
A.
mochyn

Have you thought about using shelving?


Putting the kids into storage until they're old enough to work? Laughing

I'm not sure that merely partitioning a space will be sufficient; I suspect that proper 'rooms' will be required. However, shelving isn't something I'd thought of, and is worthy of more pondering.
A.

A large filing cabinet should do the trick. File one under J and the other under B or L. Penny Outskirts

Have you thought about using shelving?

Putting the kids into storage until they're old enough to work? Laughing

I'm not sure that merely partitioning a space will be sufficient; I suspect that proper 'rooms' will be required. However, shelving isn't something I'd thought of, and is worthy of more pondering.
A.

A large filing cabinet should do the trick. File one under J and the other under B or L.

Laughing Laughing Barefoot Andrew

Laughing Laughing
A. sally_in_wales

the shelves sound a potentially good idea, put two large solid set of shelves back to back and use them to support a freestanding partition. Good and solid, adds storage and soundproofing between the rooms, and easily moveable should you ever need to remodel again. Katieowl

I think I'd be inclined to get PP for the roof alterations...(or find out if you do need it? Pretty sure you do...) and say you just want more light to use it as a home office. Then wait until it's all signed off by the inspector, and do the internal wall/door additions as cheaply as possible.

It won't ever pass planning as a bedroom anyway, as IIRC, all bedrooms now have to have fire safety compliant escape windows. You also have to have H&S compliant stairs/landings etc. So some steep climbs into attics are not acceptable.

Obiviously then you couldn't sell with benefit of 'attic bedrooms' and even possibly you might want take them out before you did come to sell to avoid problems? or call it partitioned attic storage Laughing

Not sure you'll get away with having any electrics done by you, and signed off, unless you have an electrician mate? Our Planner made us employ a Pro (OH is perfectly capable, and has did the bathroom stuff...planning only applied to the new bit Rolling Eyes )

Kate buzzy
It won't ever pass planning as a bedroom anyway, as IIRC, all bedrooms now have to have fire safety compliant escape windows. You also have to have H&S compliant stairs/landings etc. So some steep climbs into attics are not acceptable.


Kate

I'm sure that is right - at my old work place the student bedrooms (on four storeys) had to be closed because of lack of suitable fire escapes. The rooms were converted into offices. Apparently it is acceptable to burn paid staff, but not students Surprised

Henry dpack

ask a pro structural engineer for a verbal report as to if it is practical

a hundred quid or so should get a dirty hands on with a torch report

top on alterations need proper planning gz

ask a pro structural engineer for a verbal report as to if it is practical

a hundred quid or so should get a dirty hands on with a torch report

top on alterations need proper planning

seconded dpack

there are many reasons to do such things properly

proper is often cheaper in cash terms and always better value than not proper

top on additions add space but only recover about half of the cost

and they are as messy as it gets Shocked

eyeball advice is sensible earthyvirgo

Re 'lights' as long as the windows aren't dormas (i'e , don't alter the line of the roof) you don't need planning but to comply with building regs I believe they do need to be at a certain height and accommodate for a means of 'escape'.

When the loft here was turned into my studio, we went down the planning route at first but the requirements for corridors and fire doors made it totally impractical. We'd have lost more space than we've gained.

EV stumbling goat

As I understand it you are considering putting 2 children into the 2 bedrooms which you will have modelled out of your existing attic room space?

1. consider the need for fire doors at the base of the stairs to the attic space, and at the top of the stairs to the attic space and at th base of the stairs to the stairs to the landing where the stairs to the attic space start.

2. Consider how desirable it would be to prevent fire or smoke getting into the attic space by lining the walls to those stairs with 2 layers of 12mm (I think it is 12mm now, but building regs will will you) plaster board as a fire resistant lining.

3. Consider how desirable it would be to be able to get people out or let people get out via the roof in the even of a fire and those stairs becoming unusable.

sg marigold

Alternative scenario (assuming you use currently use one bedroom as an office): Relocate your office to a "temporary" cabin in the garden, use the attic for the adults and put the kids in the existing bedrooms. jamanda

Or use a small part of the attic as your office and larger part for yourself, leaving the bedrooms for the children. Slopey ceilings and awkward corners are more likely to inhibit kid's bedroom activities than yours. gz

Or use a small part of the attic as your office and larger part for yourself, leaving the bedrooms for the children. Slopey ceilings and awkward corners are more likely to inhibit kid's bedroom activities than yours.

Especially when they grow....
this seems the best suggestion. You need good light to work with, don't you?! Barefoot Andrew

Ta to all for the comments and suggestions.
A. Rob R

Curtains don't cut the mustard.
A.

A very important fact to remember Laughing Barefoot Andrew

Hmm, knitted cutlery Shocked
A. mochyn

Hmm, knitted cutlery Shocked
A.

What's the problem? alison

what did you decide on doing? Barefoot Andrew

Nothing decided or actioned as yet - but we'll likely properly partition the attic room with stud walling etc. Nothing much can happen in this regard until autumn time.

As for moving the office to the attic - that's a non-starter. For entirely selfish reasons. I spend an inordinate amount of time in here, and treasure the space and its view.
A.
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