Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption
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gil
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Using finings to clear wine | Quote: | I've got a problem with 5 one-gallon demijohns of plum, started last July. All the SGs are 990 or less. Fermentation definitely over. Racked in November; racked again in January. Still cloudy. No improvement at all since Nov. End of january, I put two DJs back into the warm fermentation cupboard with pectic enzyme. Absolutely no effect. (The PE is active, within its use by date, and has worked on other wines)
I have some perlite and some bentonite for use as finings, but am wary of using, as I understand fining can impair taste. However.... Which kind of fining (perlite, bentonite, or egg white) is likely to work best, and why ? Do they work on different sources of cloudiness ? Could it be a starch haze, for which I assume I might need fungal amylase (though I thought that was more likely in root-based wines) ? |
Sick of seeing the plum not clearing, so I experimented with two gallons, one with bentonite, one with perlite, following instructions on tubs. Bentonite had a very slight effect; perlite no effect at all.
Now what ? Anyone got any ideas ? or had a similar experience ? How long (months ? years ?) might it take for the wine to clear if it just sits there ?
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Sarah D
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Plum wine is notorious for not clearing well., if at all. Takes more years than I have ever been prepared to wait until it clears completely, but is very drinkable within 2 years or so, in my experience.
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nature's child
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Gil in one of my old wine books it says you can use dried crushed egg shell to clear wine, not tried it myself yet but it may be worth a try.
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Sarah D
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I tried the eggshell in some of mine, but no effect really. It worked quite well with some others I tried it in, but I just put up with cloudy plum now.
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mark
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Kwick Clear from Ritchi eproducts burton on trent work a treat on everything in my experience.
It has two bottles one containing Kieselsol, andf te other Gelatine (with a trace of citric acid).
you mix first one in, wait 30 mins, then add the second.
seems to always work a treat.
Costs it a bit more but you don't use much and seems to work much more effectively than an other finings I've tried - sometimes clear after 24 hours - stubborn stuff maybe takes 4 days!
be aware some gelatine based finings rely and there being tannin in the wine so only work with reds or other tannin rich wines - and they strip the tannin from the wine.
this can help if you want to strip tannin from wine cos it has too much and is too harsh (elderberry sometimes!) - but can impair its aging quality and make it a bit thin and uniteresting.
not been a problem for me with quick clear though
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gil
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Think I might leave the wine as 'cloudy plum' - probably not enough tannin for fining to work well - rack for a few months more, taste and bottle. If it turns out superbly, I might make more. Otherwise, I'll just stick to using them in chutneys and crumble. There are plenty of other things here to make wine from, and that clear with less bother.
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mark
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| gil wrote: | | Think I might leave the wine as 'cloudy plum' - probably not enough tannin for fining to work well - rack for a few months more, taste and bottle. If it turns out superbly, I might make more. Otherwise, I'll just stick to using them in chutneys and crumble. There are plenty of other things here to make wine from, and that clear with less bother. |
is worth trying to clear - in my experience cloudy wines don't taste as nice (the particles in suspension have flavours which marr the taste of the wine) - ity wil clear in time anyway. If you want to make country times you really gotta give them time - otherwise get a grape concentrate kit if you are in a hurry
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gil
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| mark wrote: | | get a grape concentrate kit if you are in a hurry |
I'm not in that much of a hurry  . And not in a hurry to drink them. Just that I will be having a demijohn and storage space shortage yet again if I can't get last year's wines clear enough to bottle as the year goes on. I was planning to make about 13-15 gallons between now and midsummer....
Back to the charity shops, I guess.... And a rejig of the pantry (the only really cold room in the house : 6C).
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sean
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Egg whites? People making 'real' wine use five to 225l of red, so I guess they're pretty effective.
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gil
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| sean wrote: | | Egg whites? . |
That was my thought about a final attempt at clearing. Will have to wait till I next have eggs in the house.
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James
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I’m not sure that any of these will clear your wine.
There are three (main..) causes for wine haze:
- yeast matter
- dissolved starch
- dissolved pectin
plums have HUGE amounts of pectin in them. This is a gelling agent- that’s why plums make great jam. When wine making, if you don’t break the pectin down before the start of the fermentation, it’s there forever.
All the protein & clay based finnings just clear up suspended solids (yeast and fruit matter), not dissolved pectin or starch.
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mark
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| James wrote: | I’m not sure that any of these will clear your wine.
There are three (main..) causes for wine haze:
- yeast matter
- dissolved starch
- dissolved pectin
plums have HUGE amounts of pectin in them. This is a gelling agent- that’s why plums make great jam. When wine making, if you don’t break the pectin down before the start of the fermentation, it’s there forever.
All the protein & clay based finnings just clear up suspended solids (yeast and fruit matter), not dissolved pectin or starch. |
I'm inclined to think the culprit behind the slow clearing might be pectin
why don't you test for pectin Pectin, Add 15 ml of methylated spirit to 5 ml of the wine - leave for a couple of hours. Will cause gelling of pectin if present. This is usually visible as small clots forming in the test solution.
Don't put the meths back in the main wine !! 
if you find pectin add some pectic enzyme - its not as good as having enough at the start but wil work!
sometimes people remember to add pectic enzyme when making the must but then the must gets a bit hot after that and destroys the enzyme! or theres loads of pectin and they don't quite add enough!
if you added anything starchy then you can check for starch with a bit of iodine! - as stated before if you find that you need to add amylase (but many of the tuns opf pectic enzyme from home brew shop have some of that in anyway!!
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gil
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OK, here are some pectic enzyme queries :
What is the best temperature range for PE to work ?
If it gets too cold, will the PE 'die off', or will putting the DJ back in a warm place reactivate it ?
When adding PE to the must, how much to add ? I've usually added 1 teaspoon per batch at the steeping stage, regardless of batch size. In the case of the plum wine, this was 1 tsp in 5 gallons. Should it be 1 tsp per gallon ?
Is it possible to add too much PE ?
Will it affect the taste of the final wine, or does it wear off ?
I've put a DJ of plum back into the fermetnation cupboard to warm up. Will experiment with adding 1 tsp of PE later on.
Would I be correct in assuming that quince wine (fruit high in pectin) may also suffer from cloudiness ? (but in that case, why are my damson and crab apple wines so clear ?). The quince isn't bad, jsut less clear than my other whites made around the same time.
Thanks, all. Useful posts / discussion.
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mark
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plum got more pectin than apple - apple usually clears by itself (lot of pectin in apple in the pips)
I would use 1 teaspoon PER GALLON or 2 teaspoons to the gal
lon if the cruit had boiling water on it to be sure of clarity!
It is inactivated by heat.
Don't add pectic enzymes during fermentation.
It is best to add 12-24 hours before you pitch yeast - or after fermentation has completely ended!
As molecules of pectin have electrical charges, they are one of the causes of colloidal hazes in wines. By adding pectic enzymes, the haze will not necessarily clear, since the electrical charge can be transferred to other particles. So if you use pectic enzyme later it won't clear immediately after the pectin is broken down - you need to allow a period for natural clearing followed by fining.
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James
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and remember that PE has a shelf life- I've perviously used old enzyme and had no luck whatever....
Things I never knew--- you could add PE after fermentation was complete, haze can be transfered to other molecules!
Alternatively, if you lived somewhere were this was legal, plum wine makes nice brandy (or so I've heard....) 
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