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netherlands to keep chooks inside
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Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 05 8:37 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

The problem with making any more arrangements without announcing something is that many people will just expect all back garden chicken keepers to kill their stock, burn all equipment and paint an "unclean" sign on the front door. I'm not joking by the way.

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 05 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I really can't see a way around that. The problem is big enough and important enough that we really, really do need to be careful.

The odds of catching this from your chickens are remote, of course. The odds of catching it from a neighbours chickens are absurdly remote.

I have no creative suggestions for how to make an irrational public start acting rationally all of a sudden. We're reaping what we've sowed by never teaching people not to be gullible

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 05 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Is there a timeframe of when all Dutch birds will be under cover? I'd have thought it would take over a month to organise.


I don't know, but I suspect that the Dutch had in place a way to do this fairly fast. They've become rather tight on such things in the last year or two.

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 05 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Quote:
Is there a timeframe of when all Dutch birds will be under cover? I'd have thought it would take over a month to organise.


last Monday the bbc wrote:
From Monday in the Netherlands, five million free range chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys and other birds will have to be kept indoors...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4172182.stm

Sounds like they gave 'em a week...

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 05 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Informed discussion on whether eating infected birds is likely to be an issue

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 05 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Excellent discussion on the continued evolution of the virus

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 05 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

In other news, there's another case in a farm in Japan, there are now 8 Russian provinces where this has been deetected (Altai republic, Novosibirsk, Omsk, Tyumen, Kurgan, Chelyabinsk oblasts, Altay Kray and the Kalmykia Republic; some of these have had mass die offs of poultry,one has had a single dead duck). There is much speculation as to the true extent of the problem in Russia, but the Russian authorities claim that it is all now under control. Whether they have or not, Russia really is pulling out all the stops to contain the outbreak.

A rare incidence of avian influenza in Finland has been reported; as yet I've seen no news as to the serotype (i.e. whether it's the nasty strain we're looking at here).

cab



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 05 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

H51N Spreads to Civets (unsurprising, but worth a look)[/quote]

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 05 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Today, the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation issued a "warning".

FAO wrote:
The deadly strain of avian influenza that has hit several countries in Asia is likely to be carried over long distances along the flyways of wild water birds to the Middle East, Europe, South Asia and Africa, FAO warned today.
Birds flying from Siberia, where the H5N1 virus has been recently detected, may carry the virus to the Caspian and Black Sea in the foreseeable future. These regions and countries in the Balkans could become a potential gateway to central Europe for the virus.
...
FAO urged countries at risk, especially along the routes of migrating birds, to step up surveillance of domestic poultry and wild birds. Countries should prepare national emergency plans.
Close contacts between humans, domestic poultry and wildlife should be reduced and closely monitored. On farms and in markets, domestic birds should be strictly separated from wild animals to the greatest extent possible. Vaccinating poultry could also be considered in at-risk situations.


The bold emphasis above is mine, as I think it specifically relevant to this discussion.

My recollection of a visit to the WWT at Welney is that its not only the Bewick's swans that migrate to here from Siberia... I think there's at least some Geese and Ducks too.


Full FAO Press Release is here:-
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2005/107405/index.html

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 05 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Does anyone know all of the smallholding or back garden poultry in the Netherlands is subject to the same controlls, i.e. is it illegal to let them roam a garden or even be in an ark that is not sealed?

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23935
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 05 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I heard a report on the news that the seagull deaths were from are different and unreleated strain. I'll look for confirmation

Guest






PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 05 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I've read this thread with inerest, I work in clinical research (when the drugs are being trialed in patients) so have some small knowledge of how the system works and drugs are developed.

I think before we all get over worked about this -we are not living back in 1918 and in the west have access to good healthcare - if we live healthier lives then our immune systems are better able to cope with disease.

I know we don't yet have vaccines to this particular strain of 'flu - but it is being worked on. We do have antivirals for 'flu that will help and these drugs are liscenced and available to us now.

As long as sensible precautions are followed - and we provide support if there is an outbreak anywhere - I think the "millions of deaths" will not occur. It's important to remeber that each year in this country hundreds of elderly and sick people die from complications around ordinary 'flu. At present worldwide there have been a few hundred deaths from avian flu - we should get this in perspective.

The real danger is the disease crossing the species barrier is overcrowding & poor hygiene in the chicken houses and slaughter houses and the workers not having protective clothing / masks to prevent them from inhaling pathogens - we should be concentrating our efforts here.

Again - we need to increase our awareness of how meat is produced aso the demand for better kept / produced meet overdies the demand for cheap food at all costs.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25697
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 05 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
I agree that migrating birds may not bring it but after the recent outbreak of Newcastle disease I would have expected to see something to stop or tighten up on the importing of live birds from Europe. It's well known that they are imported from France but I also remember seeing they are imported from Eastern Europe & Asia (I may be wrong on that as I can't remember where I saw that).


As I suggested, importing birds could be just as big a risk as migrating birds. Hopefully it's not the H5N1 strain but I would expect to reduce and even stop imports *before* the strain is found.

Quote:
The European Commission says it will ban all Turkish live bird and feather imports, after a bird flu outbreak.


Full details: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4326504.stm

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 05 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The first difference between traded and migrating birds is that imposing import controls will make not a jot of difference to millions of migratory birds.

A second difference is that while the current strains of H5N1 seem to be rapidly lethal to chickens (and turkeys), while some migratory ducks and grebes have been found to carry the virus, without obvious symptoms.

Now, I'm honestly not sure why they would ban the import of feathers, and yet permit continuing import of carcasses.
I understand that the disease cannot be caught from *cooked* meat, but my personal suspicion is that one reason for the disease popping up in zoos might well be their feeding *raw* poultry to the carnivorous zoo animals...

Gertie



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1638
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 05 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

How close will this disease have to get before we start taking precautionary measures to ensure that British poultry does not become infected? Surely, we need to do something to ensure that the transference of this disease between poultry and humans is not bridged here.

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