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Rootstock propagation and grafting questions

 
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Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 12 7:11 pm    Post subject: Rootstock propagation and grafting questions Reply with quote
    

I plan to start propagating our rootstocks and making a few grafts this winter. I've been reading up on what to do but have a few questions if anyone can help.

1) When cutting down a rootstock in order to propagate from it some places say cut to ground lever others to an inch or two above. Which one is best or will it make no difference?

2) Many places seem to use sand or sawdust to half cover the new shoots when they are several inches tall. As our soil is heavy should I avoid using soil? Could old MPC or leafmould be used or should I buy some sand?

3) When I cut off my rootstocks I can get several cuttings off each plant which I can either just stick in the ground or place in a pot of free-draining MPC. I've not had much success with fruit tree cuttings so which is best or is there a better method?

4) The apples will be cut down when the leaves drop but when should I do the cherry, plum and quince stocks? Now or in spring and do I do the same thing as the apples?

5) Can anyone recommend a good supplier of grafting tape? Google doesn't show up much apart from a seller selling suitable Parafilm on Ebay. I know ART sell it but it's a bit expensive unless I order it with other plants.

Last edited by Treacodactyl on Thu Nov 22, 12 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total

Woodburner



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I only did a bit of grafting on a short course at the local agricultural college, but common sense says keep the join as clean as possible, so if they're outside, I'd do the graft a bit higher, but if they're in pots/indoors I'd risk going lower. The lower the graft the less chance of suckering.
2) Never heard of that. (I'm not suggesting that that means it's bad though.)
3) Might as well try and 'strike' the surplus, but there's a reason why all the books say to graft.
Mum's favourite way is to put half a dozen suitably trimmed cuttings around the edge of a 6" half pot then put a poly bag over the lot, puffed up to keep it from touching the cuttings, then put it away somewhere sheltered out of direct sun. Don't hold your breath though, and if they do take, remember they aren't on specially chosen rootstock, so you might get monsters or they may refuse to grow. That's another reason why all the books say to graft.
4) I wasn't paying enough attention in class/didn't take adequate notes/have forgotten as I haven't needed to know in the intervening ** years!
5) don't know, maybe use wax instead?

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

My post may be a bit confusing, q1 -q4 relate to propagating the rootstocks not actual grafting, so q1 is referring to cutting down a rootstock in order to get it to send up new shoots ready to root for next year. I'll amend the title a bit.

yummersetter



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think you need grey_bale or OP to turn up. I'm interested in the answer you'll get too, as I don't know much about rootstocks but have some growing on. And it's obviously obvious but before my third cup of coffee, so what is MPC?

sean
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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Location: North Devon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Multi Purpose Compost?

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Yep, multi-purpose compost.

yummersetter



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 3241
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yep, it was obvious. Like WRFM

Finsky



Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 847
Location: Notts.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Here is some good info how to produce new rootstocks... https://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/chiwonlee/plsc368/student/papers02/maasheim/appleprop.htm

Finsky



Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 847
Location: Notts.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

...and some tape.. https://www.lbsgardenwarehouse.co.uk/find.asp?src=BGWebsite&cid=DONNASTMXZMWPFJ1I8AYWA60A4FQLND2

Finsky



Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 847
Location: Notts.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Oh..just to add..
Couple of years ago I talked to lady in Deacon's fruit tree nursery..she gave me loads of good info about grafting..as much as I asked, she provided answers ...and she supplied me with appropriate amount of grafting tape and wax to go with the root stocks I bought from her ..
This year I'm about to do some crafting with nectarines..and again that same lady was very helpfull..this time I do have my own tape and wax...now I'm waiting the parcel of root stocks to arrive..

Tavascarow



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Leaf mold or a mixture of your old MPC & sand (50/50) would be my advice.
Heavy soil will make separating the stocks harder & you would probably damage the roots, you want a mixture that's light & fraible & one that also wont compact or decompose down exposing roots.
The lower the stool is cut the less earthing up you will have to do.
Other than that I can't see what difference it will make as long as the surrounding ground is kept clean.

OP



Joined: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 4661
Location: Yorkshire
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I can't add much to this, as I prefer to buy mine! I think different techniques are used for different types of rootstocks (even within Malus) - so don't assume that your layering method will work with everything. If you've ever looked at new rootstocks you will have noticed some have lots of root and some (e.g. M9) hardly any, and I think that is because they are propagated differently.

I think sand or sawdust is important, but I don't know why!

gray_b



Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Posts: 251
Location: Leafy Shires of the Midlands
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 12 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

1) I always go for the inch or two above ground.

2) Sand and sawdust are used commercially on the basis that when you gather the rooted shoots its easier to either blow away the sand or sawdust, or to shake them clean. I always go for clean compost with a good mixture of sharp sand approx 50/50 ratio. Gives good drainage and enable the roots to grow better.

3) I do a mixture of both. However the ones potted up and kept at above freezing in a greenhouse always produce a better root system quicker, and ultimately a bigger and more robust tree at the end of the season.

4) I do it to all in December, or when ever the weather permits. Then have a rest over Xmas, then start grafting apples in late January followed by the others in March.

5) If you have a few just use quarter inch wide rubber bands, with the loop cut. Cover with just melted candle wax. As a test this year I grafted a few. Perfectly Ok, as callusing should have taken place after 2 weeks. I have tried this with some rubber bands that the postmen around our way just seem to throw on the floor. Ok it does not look good, but the graft has callused and is expanding, causing the wax to crack and ultimately the rubber band will perish.


Treacodactyl
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 12 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thank you all for your replies, I think that's covered everything. I have read a fair bit and even have a book specifically on grafting but you don't always get an explanation as to why something is done.

I did plant the rootstocks I intend to propagate from in groups of three so I can also have a bit of an experiment, perhaps cut one down to ground level and the others to an inch or two. Although as our ground can be wet and weedy cutting higher seems a better bet.

Looks like I'll use a mix of old MPC and sand for covering the stools and yes I have realised some rootstocks produce more roots than others, at least one of our apple ones is a very good and rapid rooter IIRC.

It's also been interesting to note the difference between the two quince rootstocks, one was very susceptible to blight and the other very resistant.

I'm happy to order a roll of grafting tape as it'll get used over the next few years.

I did wonder if PTFE tape could be used, it's very cheap and I have some spare...

Thanks again for the replies.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 14 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Time for a quick update. Most of the trees I cut down have produced some rooted shoots, not that many and a bit variable but hopefully in years to come they might do better. I've a couple that are about 5 foot high, one that seems to have developed into a multi-branched tree and a few that seem ideal for grafting.

The cuttings on the other hand have done very well, most rooting and have grown away well. However, I'm not sure what to do with some of they are a bit too thick for grating. A few are ok and I'll be much more selective in future when taking rootstock cuttings as most root - I'll just take a cutting using the top growing shoot and not ones from the lower stem that are cut top and bottom.

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