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The Joys(?) of single ply wool.
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oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 13 10:19 am    Post subject: The Joys(?) of single ply wool. Reply with quote
    

I'm looking for a bit of advice from the spinners and knitters. As you all know, knitting is becoming rather trendy, indeed, in little old Southport we now have several shops selling bits of wool and two specialists. However, the level of knowledge and experience of these vendors is low. On the other hand, the range of yarns and fibres now available is amazing, not just wool/acrylic DK, but Peruvian alpaca and stuff.

Recently a local shop suggested the my wife might like to try this new stuff: a hank of Merino/alpaca Aran weight yarn. The first thing that I noticed is that it is single ply (just checked, Aran from WYS is three-ply). I'm struggling to knit with it, it unspins itself as I knit (found out about "S"es and "Z"s, which explains things a bit)

I'm hoping that an expert will give me a few tips and maybe a few comments that will lead to enlightenment, some of which I can pass on to the wool shop.

sally_in_wales
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 20809
Location: sunny wales
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 13 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

is it one of the Lopi style wools? There are a fair few single ply variations especially in the thicker weights. There is a bit of a learning curve to knttiing with them.

What make is it? Sometimes it helps to look on Ravelry to see what other people have made with a given yarn to see what t lends itself to

Woodburner



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 13 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I've knit with completely non-spun wool in the past and it came out lovely, so I wouldn't worry about any lack of spin! What is more worrying is that, because it's becoming 'unspun' it suggests that the yarn hasn't been properly 'set' and still has some dynamic twist going on, if there's a lot of this, it can cause problems with the knitting skewing. If you knit a square, and it stays square, I wouldn't worry about it.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 13 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thanks for the replies.

I was presented with an unlabelled hank of wool. Winding it into a ball wasn't without a problem, things got a bit tangled towards the end. When I decided to seek your advice I had decided on a project: woolly hat for a toddler, and had cast on across four DPNs (I'm well up with this knitting lark- you can tell by the use of TLAs ) and completed three circuits.

I've now managed a whole inch of 2x2 rib and it looks a lot better than I was expecting.

The wool shop has a knit and natter afternoon on Fridays, so I'll pop in and get some more info on the yarn (I'll be quite safe - my wife will be looking after me).

I know several of you are expert spinners and would be familiar with single ply yarns and the pros and cons. (Haven't found a "pro" yet).

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 13 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

What they said, plus it may help to modify your knitting style while you knit with it.

Have a look at your knitting style (may help to get someone to video you knitting) and see where / how you are twisting the yarn. There might be an easy way to stop it untwisting - it will probably slow you down in the short term, but might be a quicker way to knit in the longer term.

wellington womble



Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 13 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It always looks better than you think when knitted. I know, because I am an extremely bad at spinning!!!

NorthernMonkeyGirl



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4584
Location: Peeping over your shoulder
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 13 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Midland Spinner wrote:
What they said, plus it may help to modify your knitting style while you knit with it.

Have a look at your knitting style (may help to get someone to video you knitting) and see where / how you are twisting the yarn. There might be an easy way to stop it untwisting - it will probably slow you down in the short term, but might be a quicker way to knit in the longer term.


Yes, compare knitting styles. Somehow I always end up super-twisitng when I knit??

mochyn



Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 13 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It could knit up beautifully soft (I find that chunky one-ply often does) but it sounds as if it hasn't ben set after spinning (as has been said). I like knitting with good singles but I'd love to know who spun your yarn: an experienced spinner?

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15539

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 13 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It always used to be the given that you didn't knit with single ply wool as it tended to unwind, go skew and generally be a pain. I know there has been a lot of craft knitting of late years, so this seems to have gone by the ball.

Chris, I would be a bit wary of knitting something that will have to put up with a lot of hard wear and washing. I am willing to be corrected, but I would have thought felting and possibly shrinking as a result, might occur.

mochyn



Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 24585
Location: mid-Wales
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 13 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

You could well be right about shrinkage, Rose. I've found that if I use a proper Lopi yarn there are no problems. I have an immense jacket that I wear around the house that I made with such yarn about 20 years ago: still going strong

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 13 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Dear Mochyn and Rose,

The yarn is factory spun.

My wife, who as a competent knitter, is treated as the knit and natter group's consultant, was asked by the shop owner for an opinion. I would like to see the business succeed, so I shall persevere and do my best regarding feedback.

I thought that there had to be a reason why wool is multi-ply, no-one would spin it twice for fun! Thought I'd ask. The bit about the knitting possibly becoming skewed hadn't occurred to me, and the piece, a round hat, isn't going to reveal if, with this yarn, it is a problem.

(Blimey, if they think my wife is an expert, wait 'til I go on about the qualities of single ply yarn!)

Luath



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 761

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 13 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Knitting in the round can result in skewed stitches - this happened to me knitting a single ply nettle fibre, also various trials with single ply wools. Every one behaves differently to one degree or another though.

Midland Spinner



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 2931
Location: Under a green roof
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 13 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

A lot depends on the yarn.

For instance Noro Kureyon is a single, it behaves very well, I haven't had any problems with either bias or unravelling.

Ditto with various lopi yarns - no probs with bias etc. If it's marketed as a knitting yarn then I'd expect them to have at least tried to ensure that it's relatively stable when knitted.

Woodburner



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 2904
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 13 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

oldish chris wrote:
Dear Mochyn and Rose,

The yarn is factory spun.

My wife, who as a competent knitter, is treated as the knit and natter group's consultant, was asked by the shop owner for an opinion. I would like to see the business succeed, so I shall persevere and do my best regarding feedback.

I thought that there had to be a reason why wool is multi-ply, no-one would spin it twice for fun! Thought I'd ask. The bit about the knitting possibly becoming skewed hadn't occurred to me, and the piece, a round hat, isn't going to reveal if, with this yarn, it is a problem.

(Blimey, if they think my wife is an expert, wait 'til I go on about the qualities of single ply yarn!)


Indeed! It's not really spun a second time, in fact it's more like 'unspinning'! Here's a little something you can try, take a piece of yarn about 2ft long, hold one end firmly or tape it to the desk while you give the other end more twist until it tightens up a bit, then, still holding firmly, bring the two ends together in the air. See how madly it all twists together! If you do it neatly, you get one double thickness yarn, which is stable, and that's the important part. Allowing two twisty yarns, to 'untwist' around each other, is a far faster way of getting neutral twist yarn than putting singles into skeins, washing at appropriate temperatures and drying under tension.

You can do a similar test on a ball of yarn straight from the shop. Hold the yarn firmly where it is coming off the ball, and unwind a couple of feet more. Bring the ball close to the hand that is still firmly holding the yarn. If it stays in a nice loose loop, all well and good. If it twists around itself, not so good! If it twists a lot, send it back to the manufacturer!

I could go on at length about the relative merits of of different yarn types and manufacture for different purposes throughout history, but I think that's all you really need to know.

You're spot on about twist not mattering much on a hat. You might get a spiral effect going on but that's all.

oldish chris



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 4148
Location: Comfortably Wet Southport
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 13 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Woodburner wrote:

You can do a similar test on a ball of yarn straight from the shop. Hold the yarn firmly where it is coming off the ball, and unwind a couple of feet more. Bring the ball close to the hand that is still firmly holding the yarn. If it stays in a nice loose loop, all well and good. If it twists around itself, not so good! If it twists a lot, send it back to the manufacturer!
Thanks. Really useful info. The wool was bought in a hank, which I wound into a ball. I unwound about a yard and let it dangle, it twisted on itself - each twist was about one inch long.

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