Acidic compost

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Acidic compost
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Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16323

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 15 7:15 am Post subject:

I am sorry, but potassium nitrate is not stable with water. Both potassium and nitrates are the among the most soluble of salts. Potassium carbonate will be less water soluble as carbonates (e. g. calcium carbonate) are less soluble or even sparingly soluble.

These days calcium carbonate may be used for 'liming', and although it is not that soluble it is a safe, although limited use method. Calcium carbonate can also cause 'chlorosis' where the plant doesn't produce chlorophyll. We live on chalk, and so can't grow some things, and have to be aware others may need something like sequestrine to grow well.

The urine used would depend upon the use to which it was to be put. Saltpetre may have been preferred from women, but for dyeing the urine from boys was the best. The worst was from men who had been to the pub for some reason.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 15 7:56 am Post subject:

To be honest while looking up details of wood ash use the main thing I learnt was not to trust what's said as it often seemed contradictory or wrong.

I listened to the Gardener's Question Time on iPlayer and they did say several times wood ash contained lime. (It wasn't Bob though).

As I'm on acidic soil now and tend to have my compost heap on the ground I'll be growing on I just add everything to it to balance things out.

Going back to the original post, if you don't need huge amounts I'd just buy a bag of peat and compost the other items in the one big heap. After all, peat is still used for burning and in many potting composts so if you're raising fruit and veg in it I wouldn't worry too much.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43946
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 15 11:39 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

it wasnt they were women it was that they sneakily went in church during prayers and the earth floor did not get leached by rain chaps went outside and the salts/urea was lost.

pig pens were still on the top of the list but folk hid the best manure if the knew the king's petermen were collecting in their area.

as a slight aside the petermen were less popular than tax collectors with folk who grew their food but had little cash and were protected with some very draconian penalties for obstructing their work.

ed re the dye trades the best urine was from the chamber pots of posh houses where folk ate meat and drank wine ,stong ale and spirits ie plenty of urea and low volume,the poor ate turnips and drank weak beer ie low urea /high volume.
there was quite a well developed trade from rich areas to the places where folk had woad houses etc and the servants could earn a few extra pence a month selling the masters wee to the chaps with barrels.

Last edited by dpack on Wed Oct 21, 15 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 15 2:06 pm Post subject:
Good to know that even in the good old days defence spending was more important than feeding the poor. Shows nothing much has changed.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 15 2:34 pm Post subject:
It wasn't even really a practical question. I was just idly wondering whether it would work. I have lots of other Practical Things to be getting on with.

Jam Lady

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2596
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 15 3:00 pm Post subject:
Umbellicaria lichens, those black flappy things that grow on rocks, give a nice purple dye when, according to one of my books, they are soaked with "urine from a male child, preferably collected upon first arising." Passed some lichens on to a friend. Who simply used ammonia as the extracting liquidt.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43946
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 15 3:49 pm Post subject:
i forgot to mention that for dye stuffs "stale"is the correct state ie the urea has converted back to ammonia i can understand why dyers were often banned from towns

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16323

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 15 5:53 am Post subject:

Yes, stale urine is used in a woad or indigo dye bath. It is said that Queen Elizabeth I wouldn't go to a town where they had woad dyers, but she was rather 'nice' in her tastes.

I have used a woad bath with ammonia, and even that stinks. In that case it is the ammonia that is important. In general it is the urea that acts a mordant I think.

Urine in general can be used to soften and finish cloth. I understand that this was used on Harris tweed in the past. Not sure about now.

alison
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 15 11:10 am Post subject:
I believe urine was also used to bleach linens, and keep them nice and white.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16323

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 15 5:43 am Post subject:
In the past urine was used quite frequently in dyeing, washing and other things. If you were lucky it was used in the last but one rinse I suppose.

dan1

Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 102
Location: Bristolish

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 15 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Acidic compost

wellington womble wrote:

If I have a compost heap just for acidic kitchen waste (coffee grounds, tea bags, citrus etc) will it make acidic compost? Or is that too basic (no pun intended!)

Are you looking for advice on what to do about too acid compost and how to alkalise it, or exploring whether you can manufacture your own acid (ericaceous) compost?

I've been composting my tea-leaves (i'm a loose leaf snob) for years in a separate container and putting them on my blueberries. They're alive but I've never checked to see if the resulting mulch is acidic.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 15 10:19 am Post subject:

It was merely idle wondering. I do have some blueberries, so I wondered if maintaining separate compost for them would be worthwhile, but it isn't a huge problem.

My main problem with compost is I simply can't get enough of it. There is no way I can make enough for the garden, and I have totally failed to find a suitable animal to graze or someone to deliver piles of manure. Must have another think about that.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6688
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 15 11:10 am Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

My main problem with compost is I simply can't get enough of it. There is no way I can make enough for the garden, and I have totally failed to find a suitable animal to graze or someone to deliver piles of manure. Must have another think about that.

How strict are UK laws when it comes to something like this?
https://humanurehandbook.com/

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 16323

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 15 8:01 am Post subject:
You can buy manure from some sewage farms; the best I think is sterilised, which smells less, but not sure if it is sold for gardens. I think they mainly sell to farmers, and only to ones that aren't in sensitive areas for water supplies.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 15 9:41 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

You can buy manure from some sewage farms; the best I think is sterilised, which smells less, but not sure if it is sold for gardens. I think they mainly sell to farmers, and only to ones that aren't in sensitive areas for water supplies.

Municipal Sewerage sludge has a lot of other contaminants like heavy metals that I wouldn't want on my land.
In answer to slims question I don't think there's anything stopping individuals or households composting their own & using it in their garden but problems arise when it's used on crops that might be eaten by others.
A bit like home slaughter (AFAIA).
You can kill your own pig (humanely) & feed it to your kids but if you invite your next door neighbour around for a roast it has to be killed in a licensed abattoir.

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