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Old shed for kindling?
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Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14821
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 16 3:09 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Bodger wrote:
The smoke and anything noxious will go up your chimney and not your nose.

Ah, is that what I'm doing wrong?

onemanband



Joined: 26 Dec 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: NCA90
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 16 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
...landfill seems silly......


and is expensive, so now where possible, timber is sent to power stations for burning.
If I have a lorry of 'clean timber' it is about 50% cheaper to dispose of than mixed(landfill) waste.
If Chez takes it to a 'tidy tip' and puts it in the wood container, it will probably end up in a power station.

I assume burning in a power station is less harmful to the environment than a bonfire.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14821
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 16 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

onemanband wrote:
I assume burning in a power station is less harmful to the environment than a bonfire.

Certainly in theory: a more controlled burn should be cleaner and they should have some facility to deal with toxins in the ash.

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 4721
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 16 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
onemanband wrote:
I assume burning in a power station is less harmful to the environment than a bonfire.

Certainly in theory: a more controlled burn should be cleaner and they should have some facility to deal with toxins in the ash.


They should have "scrubbers" on the smokestack to deal with what's going up, and the ash will be landfilled, IIRC.

Definitely wouldn't want to spread that ash on my land, and would avoid being near the smoke as well....

john of wessex



Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2114

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 16 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'd certainly watch what you do with the ash as that could contain nasties

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14821
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 16 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

http://www.ccaresearch.org/metals_concentration.htm

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33018
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 16 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

gulp , the last column is a bit scary.

if the shed is over 20 yrs old the chances of it having copper arsinate in the new or every few years preservatives are fairly high

again if over 20 yrs old it may well have had tri butyl tin in the mix as well

multiple applications could easily exceed the numbers in the chart.

i knew old sheds were a bit dodgy but seeing how much cu/as there is in ash (or even unburned timber) from one treatment wood compared to "acceptable" levels for landfilling without treating it as hazardous waste is a bit of a reminder to beware of things like old sheds ,fence posts and timber from houses treated for rot and worms.

i can think of quite a few london houses one could not landfill in florida

.on an even worse tack i can think of a few old timber treatment chaps who one could probably not landfill in florida, possibly me included .

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33018
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 16 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

ps tributyl tin,copper arsinate and lindane in a white spirit type solvent works a treat to eradicate and/or prevent any biological attack on your timber however it was banned for good reasons.

pps another thing often used on old sheds is used engine oil which has a whole bunch of nasty organics, some which would come out in the smoke and some might even stay in the ashes if the burn was less than 1000c (which is unlikely in all of a bonfire)

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8900

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 16 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Putting that into context the worst result is something like 0.1g per kg. I rather suspect that most garden soil in some areas of arsenic containing rock wouldn't pass the test for arsenic in Florida, as that is very low indeed.

If you get a bonfire going really well, then put the treated wood on in small amounts if it has only organic treatment, most should be broken down, but avoid breathing the smoke anyway.

The question is, is it better to burn treated wood and have the nasties disperse into the air with the smoke, with some left in the ash, or put the whole lot into landfill where all the nasties remain. If it is used for power station fuel, that will improve things no end, but the scrubbing fluids and ash will have high concentrations of all sorts of things and will have to be disposed off too.

Chez



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35868
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 16 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Cripes. After all that, I've decided to rescue as much as I can and use it for a tree house for Leo. Problem solved . Mostly.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 14821
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 16 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
The question is, is it better to burn treated wood and have the nasties disperse into the air with the smoke, with some left in the ash, or put the whole lot into landfill where all the nasties remain...

Are the nasties not natural nasties that were dug out of the ground in the first place?
Do they bio-accumulate or are they excreted?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 33018
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 16 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

landfill leachate is an issue,hence well organised toxic waste dumps have linings and caps to reduce it.

the nasty metals were mined originally and any water flowing through such ores is often high in them but as most is locked into the rock that is not the same as putting the used product in an old gravel pit and popping a bit of topsoil over it when it is full

as ash the metals are very available to be dissolved and leach into the environment

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8900

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 16 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

They were talking of having a waste tip near us, but the local water board objected as it was right above their aquifer, and they didn't trust the lining. It is gault clay there and judging by the works on the nearby motorway going through it, not that stable, as they have had to rework the bank several times.

I would have a look at the shed Chez. If it is green or obviously smells of creosote of something, not really suitable for reuse as a playhouse. Otherwise, should be all right, but always best to get him to wash his hands before eating anything as you never know. I don't believe in hand washing for good clean dirt, but am very particular about chemicals.

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 4721
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 16 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mistress Rose wrote:
They were talking of having a waste tip near us, but the local water board objected as it was right above their aquifer, and they didn't trust the lining. It is gault clay there and judging by the works on the nearby motorway going through it, not that stable, as they have had to rework the bank several times.



An old landfill was deemed an EPA superfund site near my parents home years ago. My brother was hired as a temp worker on the lining procedure. They used 3 layers of impervious kevlar like fabric to line the bottom and the top, in addition to layers of earth and gravel, and thorough site drainage for monitoring. If it were done that way, I think your aquifer would be fine. If they were relying on a clay layer as the liner, I would also be anxious.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8900

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 16 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I think they were going to use the natural clay for lining. It is pretty impervious, but of course tree roots grow though it. The aquifer is rather important as it supplies water for the whole of Portsmouth and surrounding areas. It also supplied Gibralter in 1976 when they and we had a severe drought and they had to ship water into Gib.

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