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A poor workman...
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Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15337
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 19 2:34 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Slim wrote:
Does it "bring you Joy"?

Hard to tell really: is one of those things that is so frustrating when it's jamming that in comparison the relief when it works if fairly joyful.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35900
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 19 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Dismantle and fettle the feed might restore it to a working but still a gasless mig.

you might have answered your own question by the way you asked it:lol:

imho it is a good tool if it does the job yesterday, today and tomorrow, be that single use and many of them or lifetime friend, and it needs to do it with little frustration or danger.
tools that look like a tool but do not perform are not tools.

the next thing is do i need that tool? well do i?

is it better to get someone with that tool kit to do it rather than get the toolkit and only use it rarely and without full time skills?

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15337
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 19 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
Dismantle and fettle the feed might restore it to a working but still a gasless mig.


It may not be as good as a proper one, but it is a heck of a lot more convenient.
If I end up doing lots of welding then I might reassess, but as it is I cannot justify the faff of having gas bottles.

Quote:
you might have answered your own question by the way you asked it:lol:

One of the reasons that I asked. The trouble with talking to myself is that I presume that I know what I'm going to say so I stop listening...
That's not such a problem when I write it down.

Quote:
is it better to get someone with that tool kit to do it rather than get the toolkit and only use it rarely and without full time skills?

Meh. It's just like falling of a bicycle: it soon comes flooding back.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4290
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 19 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

My welder is being checked over,but I think its had it,its near on 32yrs old,
How do you find these gasless migs compared to an arc welder,as only an arc I`ve used?

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15337
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 19 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
My welder is being checked over,but I think its had it,its near on 32yrs old,
How do you find these gasless migs compared to an arc welder,as only an arc I`ve used?

I've not done a lot of stick welding to compare, but I expect it depends what you're welding. A mig is a lot easier to weld thin sheet.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4290
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 19 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I`ve seen the gas migs weld all thicknesses,maybe that is the difference between gas and gas lees migs,

The arc works on lighter ,material if you turn it down low,its was a 180amp I had,and when turned out done girder work,best I stick with what I know.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15337
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 19 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
I`ve seen the gas migs weld all thicknesses,maybe that is the difference between gas and gas lees migs,

It comes down to the power of the machine, and I think gasless migs only come in the smaller models.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26648
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 19 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I see tools divide roughly into three categories

Cheap shit that can't handle anything. Well you can't always tell in advance, but hey let the returns department deal with that.

Adequate and there really is no substitute for the right tools. If it needs a router, just what else are you going to use? Time is also money and the right tools vastly speed up diy.

Stuff I'd love but can't possibly afford or justify.[/list]

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 5475
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 19 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

I'd say the cheap and hardly functional ranging to adequate is a spectrum more than a distinct grouping. I'd also submit that "no substitute for the right tool" is perhaps on a different axis than that first spectrum, as the right tool that does the job better than what you're trying to use can be inexpensive, moderately priced, or expensive, either way it's what will do the job better or best.

Tools I'd love but can't possibly afford may overlap with "the right tool" at times, but may also be in their own universe, as sometimes you really don't need that specialized tool when a ________ suffices, or it would be an absolute joy to use but you don't really need it or won't use it often, or should just rent it, or you could buy three less expensive versions for the same cost....

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35900
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 19 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

i have some good tools, i have broken a lot of carp.

if it will pay for itself eventually( long life /enough need) get the best you can afford

the best is not always the most expensive, some of my lifelong chisel chums were a couple of pounds at boot sales etc.

with machinery based tools go for industrial rated stuff.
ditto boot/auction sale markdown.

a simple example is a hand held drill for up to say 10 mm in wood and 8 in bricks etc.
a cheap domestic might do the job for its 20 hr life span
a mid range industrial will do the job in lignum vitae or cherry root or basalt and it will out live all of us as a diy now and again tool

plus pro kit is usually far easier to use:lol:
sds chuck or one with a key, you decide.

re welding i dont know much about gas shielded, my thing is O/A welding (+ gas axe)and stick.

i am very out of practice but at one time i could weld cast iron frames back together, i like hot metal but only with good tools.

ed . ps i was a dibnah style chaps goferdoit on a carding house restoration for a year which is where i learned to stick and developed a delight in real tools.

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15337
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 19 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

jema wrote:
Cheap shit that can't handle anything. Well you can't always tell in advance, but hey let the returns department deal with that.


It seems to me that most stuff comes in two categories.

Stuff made in China, that some company has imported and put their name on.
Stuff made in China that you buy from a company in China.

Stuff in the first category is subject to some quality control and often comes a lot more expensive.
Stuff in the second carries a bit of a risk, but if you buy through some agency that offers some buyer protection, and test it thoroughly straight away, then the risk is minimised.

Quote:
Adequate and there really is no substitute for the right tools. If it needs a router, just what else are you going to use? Time is also money and the right tools vastly speed up diy.


My attitude is that if it is something new (to me) and I don't know how useful it is going to be, then get a cheap one.
Even if it's crap, you can usually get a good suss of how useful a good one would be and if you break it in the process, then take it back to the shop...
Sometimes the cheap one is perfectly adequate.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 35900
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 19 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

if it is crap you cannot learn how useful a good one is only how crap a bad one is.

re the without the known label kit i have a circular saw that is a top end make that i got new for a tenner no label, it is still working after a lot of heavy pro use. even after that the original blade is still good after 20 yrs

i have had £500 kit for £150 no label etc etc.

recently i got a remote for the camera
£30 and in existence direct rather than £50 and there are none from the camera firm
that has an A at the end of the name code on it:lol:
identical kit but not the big name branded version , it works .

copy kit usually does not work

Hairyloon



Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 15337
Location: Today I are mostly being in Yorkshire.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 19 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
if it is crap you cannot learn how useful a good one is only how crap a bad one is.

Depends on the job. There is often (for example) the case where you can see that it would have worked if the tool hadn't broken/bent/slipped.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 26648
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 19 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Hairyloon wrote:
dpack wrote:
if it is crap you cannot learn how useful a good one is only how crap a bad one is.

Depends on the job. There is often (for example) the case where you can see that it would have worked if the tool hadn't broken/bent/slipped.


Agreed, I needed a router, returned two for being useless. By which time I knew a bit more about routers.

gregotyn



Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 2053
Location: Llanfyllin area
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 19 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There is a trick Hairyloon, ask who, local to you, already has the welder you like the look of in the shop, then go see if that person is happy with it and would he have another! If you hit it off, he may well give you a go-bonus-so take some steel with you of the type you think you will use most often! Just an idea.

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