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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 40337
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 21 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

umm

coal is out of the energy supply cos the plants are end of life and would cost a lot to replace and run
it is more expensive than renewables and lilibet gets a good bung for owt attached to the seabed etc
my comments re bulk steel above still apply

"well he would say that" also applies

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4421
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 21 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Looks like lillbet is going to get another big bung for the new planned off shore wind farms in North Wales.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 40337
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 21 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

i pointed to lillibet's nice little earner, among other things energy related, in a Newsnight interview of "eco activists" (un rehearsed 10 mins to camera)about 2000 or 2001.they wanted praise for blair chucking £100 mil at renewables and i started with my "not even pocket change"direction

" fascinating but we cannot possible broadcast it"

as they would not hand over their goretex so i taxed em for a couple of slabs of special brew


there better media tart performances but that one surprised us on a cold wet evening and we were a bit fierce

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 12999

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 21 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Is the use of hydrogen in steel smelting proven? The only article I could find from about 2 years ago says it was being 'explored'. While it is theoretically possible, and may have been used on small scale, how would it work out in the short term in practice?

The alternative of course is charcoal, which is a renewable resource, but is probably unworkable on the scale of modern steel production. This was used before coke and the main areas of iron production are still heavily wooded.

Something that has come up that is also of interest. Apparently the fast charging electric cars need a rather higher power input than is available at present in most city homes and probably some more rural ones. Our infrastructure is going to need some upgrading before all the potential of electric vehicles etc. is possible on a large scale. Some joined up thinking perhaps?

I must say that I am heartened that finally renewable energy is becoming more common though. I had an early solar cell given to my father by Bell Laboratories in the US about 55 years ago. Rather slow progress.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4421
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 21 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Yes it is proven,and used,but on a Very small scale.

On a large bulk operation its just to expensive to run unless one has vast amounts of cheap ,regular energy,which the UK does not have.

Saudi has cheap run steel works,but it sits on the Bern gas field and utilises the methane.

Shane



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3313
Location: Doha. Is hot.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 21 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tahir wrote:
The Government has confirmed its commitment to end unabated coal-power generation from 2025 and is consulting on bringing this date forward to 2024. This would ensure that the deadline for the phase-out of coal from Britain’s energy system is 1 October 2024.


Hmm - there's a big difference between ending "unabated coal-power generation" and phasing out coal from Britain's energy system. The two are not the same thing at all.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34531
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 21 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
Yes it is proven,and used,but on a Very small scale.

On a large bulk operation its just to expensive to run unless one has vast amounts of cheap ,regular energy,which the UK does not have.
.


This will come as a shock to anyone living near a tide.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27219
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 21 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I always question the idea of "too expensive" what that actually means is that in a capitalist system someone is going it cheaper.
Many industries which were perfectly viable in developing Countries get wiped out once cheap imports arrive
There is this prevailing attitude that we can only solve environmental issues if the solution fits with the capitalist logic that the replacement must be cheaper and more profitable than the current solution.
Some times that kind of plays out, renewable energy for example.
But it's a dangerous rule to work by.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 12999

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 21 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

There are ways, as you say Nick, like tidal power. So far, to the best of my knowledge, tidal and wave power haven't been utilised commercially to any great extent in the UK.

You are right Jema, and in an ideal world, that wouldn't matter. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world, and people as a minimum, need what they need at a price they think they can afford. If another country is producing something more cheaply by using some other form of energy, then importing it, all be it using nasty dirty oil powered ships, then it will be imported.

At last, renewable energy is being produced to an extent that makes it a viable energy source for most things, all be it that there are still 'storage' problems. Until there is a way of storing that energy that is convenient and reliable, at a reasonable cost, it won't be viable to use it to fully convert something like iron smelting to renewable electricity and hydrogen reduction.

While we, as DS, may be willing and able to make or buy hand crafted things with minimal energy input, most people aren't I am afraid.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 40337
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 21 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Nick wrote:
Ty Gwyn wrote:
Yes it is proven,and used,but on a Very small scale.

On a large bulk operation its just to expensive to run unless one has vast amounts of cheap ,regular energy,which the UK does not have.
.


This will come as a shock to anyone living near a tide.


like south wales for instance, i know the second biggest on the planet quite well

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4421
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 21 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I`m afraid it will be Ta Ta before that happens.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 40337
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 21 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dark and perfect

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 40337
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 21 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

a bit less than diplomatic but valid

interesting he found the sheriff's officers a bit rough, perhaps that needs sorting.


dont know him, if dan said that i would be very diplomatic and get it done

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 40337
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 21 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

diplomacy is good, saves lives as well, which matters if fluffy is a big part of doing something

as are things they do not teach at school

fluffy or sharp, fluffy is nice and can sort of win sometimes, the other thing wins most times

win is open to interpretation

fluffy is ok but effective matters, not fluffy has merit when the fluffy option is futile

i am a dead man, i can accomplish anything, now let the birds sing.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 40337
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 21 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Apparently Babylon is being less than polite in some places
wind etc

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