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Venison for Christmas Dinner
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Nicky Colour it green



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 8983
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 21 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
bambi is delicious, i prefer marinaded to hung and eating the "extra" ones is good landscape management in many places


I initially thought I didn't like venison, but it turns out I don't like over hung meat. The company I use are producing meat as a result of herd management and the meat is delicious.

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2278
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 21 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

From a USDA site: Wild game species that can be legally hunted under federal or state regulatory authority, cannot be sold, but can be harvested for personal consumption."

In the past there was severe hunting pressure on deer and other wildlife. The meat was sold in markets. Passenger pigeons became extinct. Turkeys were practically eliminated in regions, white tail deer likewise. Federal laws were passed to eliminate the selling of wild game.

It is legal to give the meat away, to donate to food pantries. Hunting clubs skirt the law by having wild game dinners, not charging but instead asking for donations at the door.

Dpack, wouldn't deer hunting with saluki be forbidden under the UK hunting with dogs restrictions?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 41526
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 21 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yep, and so is bow hunting. i dont but i know how to.
i prefer that they get dropped by a sniper and never notice getting dead

historically deer belonged to the king and the big aristos got to share them if they were in favour

taking a deer was a capital crime until the 19th C and even then you could get jailed/deported to the colonies, shot or mangled in a man trap even for a rabbit let alone a deer

the landowners permission is still required as is a licenced firearm and safety agreements as to what shots can be taken are(usually)quite well done and stuck to

rather than a royal treat and badge of power they are a bit of a pest in some places nowadays and even woodsfolk and farmers can cull them and sell or eat them if it is done inside the basic rules

a few folk have tried farming them, with limited success

the USA's eat what you take and no sales does make sense considering how overhunting is never sensible
you stopped while you still had bears and beavers and many other things, most of our stuff like that had gone before the tudors took power
we had nearly wiped out the seals before they got protected, ditto birds that "look nice"on a hat etc

the uk has a blacker pot than the us kettle when it gets to over hunting and habitat destruction, i spose we are a bit ahead on the timeline and have almost no "natural" landscapes

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6150
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 21 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

There are plenty of game ranches where people can source farmed venison, elk, etc, but I think it's relatively uncommon/specialty.

sgt.colon



Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 7172
Location: Just south of north.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 21 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Thanks for posting that JL.

I live in my own little world and forget about people's avarice.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 13584

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 21 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

There are various laws and rules that cover hunting deer in the UK. The first is a gun licence. Getting one in the UK is far harder than some states in the US, although I understand it is very variable there. Then there are various types of licence; shotgun, rifle, and I think a different one for shooting deer, and an even more restricted one for shooting wild boar. Then there are the Countryside and Wildlife Acts, and the additional ones re animal cruelty, hunting with dogs, and possibly special deer acts. It results in only certain people being allowed to shoot deer, at certain times of day, not in certain places (e.g. across roads, paths etc.) and males at one time of year and females at others. Only exception is muntjac with are introduced and fast becoming a pest which can be shot at any time of year and day within reason.

We do have a couple of native species; roe and red. Fallow were the main ones of deer parks in the past, and they are quite common not far from us. Luckily so far they have not crossed the trunk road in large numbers, as they can destroy an area of fresh coppice overnight, being a herd animal. We don't get red deer round here as they are more heath and moorland animals, but we do have roe and some muntjac. Other introduced ones are Sika and Chinese water deer.

After a very heavy, and probably illegal culling by someone in the woods north of us, we didn't see any roe deer for a couple of months, but yesterday we saw 4. I think they do tend to congregate at this time of year, so hopefully not too many around, as they do go for the coppice quite badly, but otherwise, nice to see them.

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2278
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 21 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I don't hunt but have some hearsay information about hunting here in New Jersey. Here's a link to an online page for all regulations: https://www.nj.gov/dep/fgw/njregs.htm
You can dive deep and find a page specific to farmers, etc.

And in case you don't care about turkeys, etc here's a page specific for rules about taking deer: https://www.nj.gov/dep/fgw/pdf/2021/regsets21-22.pdf

Basically there are different seasons for bow, muzzle loader, shotgun that also limit whether taking doe, antlerless buck (button buck), buck.

Permits are purchased for certain regions. Used to be that the man who hunts our property had to get a second permit to hunt here, That was in addition to the permit for where he lives. This year he was able to purchase a permit good for both areas.

Any successful hunt - the deer must be tagged using tag(s) supplied with permit.

We're happy to have someone who knows what he is doing, hunts safely, makes a clean kill - and then shares some of the meat.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 41526
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 21 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

sensible, if a bit complex and similar to ours in many ways

a mix of sustainable and kindly and safe is best

a big difference is your rules are citizen based, ours are ruler based with a few more modern tweaks for useful peasants

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 13584

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 21 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

We don't hunt either, but son belongs to BASC, who are the main shooting organisation in the UK as he has an air rifle. No good for most things but have used it to kill squirrels. The grey squirrel which was imported from the US is a pest round here and regarded as vermin.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 41526
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 21 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

i like the trout regs, ideal if you only get a couple of days fishing a year and have a smoker/freezer

you also seem to have plenty of clean rivers, no point stocking with trout unless the BOD is low and the O2 levels for trout can be maintained in that type of water flow etc, they also need a clean river/river margins for food

as a small aside, our gov have just permitted the water companies to discharge raw sewage rather than build better sewers

our trout regs will now be irrelevant

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2278
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 21 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mistress Rose, gray squirrels are small but make good eating. Traditional was burgoo, a slow long cooked dish of any / everything available::"The true origins of burgoo are obscure – some trace the basic recipe all the way back to Wales. On the early Kentucky frontier, burgoo seems to have been the result of community efforts. Everybody brought to big events whatever meat they could provide – very often wild game such as venison, squirrel, wild turkey, quail, opossum, rabbit, and raccoon – and into huge iron pots of water it all went along with generous portions of whatever vegetables and seasonings might be at hand. This rich blend was cooked over open fires very slowly and stirred constantly until the meat nearly dissolved into the thick broth."

Contemporary recipes seem to mostly call for soaking meat in buttermilk, then dusting with seasoned flour and frying.

Interestingly, one site I was checking mentioned that since covid-19 they were getting many more hits.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 13584

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 21 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

As you say Dpack, discharges into rivers or the sea are now allowed, which should please Southern Water who have recently been fined a very large sum for doing precisely that. In this area they discharge into the sea, making the local shellfish inedible.

Jam Lady. Interesting. When my son was at college, his lecturer got the gamekeepers to have a blitz on the local squirrels ( we have only greys here and no native reds) and held a 'squirrel soiree' with squirrel cooked in various ways. If we ever get a trap it is a meat I want to try. So far I have only had pheasant, rabbit and pigeon; the pheasant from accidents and the pigeon courtesy of the peregrine falcon who tends to drop them. Son did phone me from work once and say if he brought home a rabbit, could I skin it and use it, which I did.

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2278
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 21 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Wild caught game I've prepared includes venison, raccoon, woodchuck and pigeon. Farm raised includes rabbit and pheasant.

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6150
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 21 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I've heard that woodchuck takes some skill in removing some odorous glands.

I wished that I had time to experiment with some of the porcupines I dispatched this year, but summer is busy and I want sure the outcome would be worth the effort (probably would be if I didn't have to overcome the lack of familiarity processing wild game learning curve).

I was hoping to harvest a deer this hunting season, as our state was eager to give out extra antlerless ("any deer") permits this year, but an in law's passing and other things took over most of the scant free time

Jam Lady



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2278
Location: New Jersey, USA
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 21 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It's no big deal, Slim. There is a small yellow bean like gland in the woodchuck's forearm "pits." Take it out intact and you are good to go.

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