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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 23 10:51 am Post subject:

ideal would be at home/work+massive range from charged which is
not plausible at the mo for most folk

a small family car+grid+adequate range for most folk+ adequate public charging and home charging if possible is plausible at the mo if the joined up thinking of manufacturers and infrastructure can be made to happen

china is better able to manage that than the oldtimer petrol based places

china tried the model t /oil system in the first couple of decades of the powered personal transport evolution from using a bike or a donkeyman and decided the future was electric

and they harvest collagen from folk within the state and business who are corrupt and those who steal wires etc, they have their faults, but that might not be one of them

as an example of urban at home, electrifying here with rows of leccy bollards along the curbside would take no more than a trench and some pits to construct. the kit is virtually off the shelf stuff, the generation supply can take the load etc

if there are enough plugs for the physical number of parking spots it would work fine, commercial metered to the vehicle or free at point of use communist power are both plausible and practical

if you are not the flying dutchman the car will be parked somewhere, most parts of somewhere urban could have a charging bollard

control gear for that sort of supply is not new tech

using it like this is and will not please the oil sellers who have a few decades left to take what they can(be that by changing technology and prices or by the effects of 200 yrs of fossil forcings)

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 23 12:02 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

...
as an example of urban at home, electrifying here with rows of leccy bollards along the curbside would take no more than a trench and some pits to construct. the kit is virtually off the shelf stuff, the generation supply can take the load etc

if there are enough plugs for the physical number of parking spots it would work fine, commercial metered to the vehicle or free at point of use communist power are both plausible and practical

if you are not the flying dutchman the car will be parked somewhere, most parts of somewhere urban could have a charging bollard...

but realistically, there are a lot of cars parked where charging points will not be allowed. As I already said earlier on this thread, there isn't enough parking in my village and people already park in the church car park (the church would like to stop this, are hardly going to encourage with chargers, plus there is no infrastructure to put said points in) and a bit of a muddy area that they are not allowed to park on but a blind eye is being turned.. people also park in my street - which is narrow so can only accommodate parking on one side and parking is officially limited to a very short time to allow customers to come to the local shops. That's before we even get to whether the system could handle all those chargers.. based on how rubbish the sewerage, internet and phone lines are.. I have my doubts.

Whilst undoubtedly there are many situations where charging set up would be relatively straight forward, such as the urban areas you describe, it isn't going to work for large portions of the population.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 23 1:10 pm Post subject:
if the church could do with some funds to rest in their account, they could do worse than creating a profit from a problem make it a leccy hub and everyone wins

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28118
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 23 2:48 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

dpack wrote:

Too many cars is a problem full stop, but bear in mind EVs don't need to charge nightly to meet peoples needs. Once a week would mostly be enough.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 23 3:13 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

if the church could do with some funds to rest in their account, they could do worse than creating a profit from a problem

make it a leccy hub and everyone wins

but what they want in the short term is for worshippers to have somewhere to park - these are not the same people as the locals as, obviously, they are within walking distance. So if they attract the locals to park there to charge, the worshipers driving in will have no where to park and park in the street, if they can, adding to parking problems

in the long term the church plans to build houses on the car park, to create those funds to rest in their account, and removing the parking there is, and no doubt creating a need for more, meanwhile the worshippers will still have no where to park.....

Last edited by Nicky cigreen on Sun Jan 15, 23 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 23 3:18 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

Too many cars is a problem full stop, but bear in mind EVs don't need to charge nightly to meet peoples needs. Once a week would mostly be enough.

it is. The village was built long before cars were invented. Once a week charging makes it more possible.. I can see a charging hub being built to accommodate the need... on street charging seems fraught with problems.
I am fortunate in having off street parking, so, aside from cost of upgrading electrics, home charging would be my way forward. Saying that.. if they put in street charging... might be preferable to park out there once a week to charge up.. and if people did that... it will add to the parking issues.....

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 23 5:35 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

dpack wrote:

if the church could do with some funds to rest in their account, they could do worse than creating a profit from a problem

make it a leccy hub and everyone wins

not stewards or liberation theologists
umm

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28118
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 6:51 am Post subject:
I guess another point is that people living vast distances away from where they actually work and needing multiple cars is something that aught to be structurally discouraged anyway. Too many villages where the locals are priced out by people ability to commute. It's an absurdity that does new people any favours let alone the environmental cost.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15598

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 8:10 am Post subject:

That is another and constant problem Jema. There are a few 'desirable' villages round here where most of the locals have had to leave, or in many cases they rent out the family home for large amounts of money and live elsewhere. In some there is no public transport. One village near us where there is a first school lost its bus some years ago, so as the catchment area is large car is the only solution. Add to that the middle school is in another village with one bus an hour and a family with one child at each has no alternative but car.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 12:06 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

I guess another point is that people living vast distances away from where they actually work and needing multiple cars is something that aught to be structurally discouraged anyway.
Too many villages where the locals are priced out by people ability to commute.
It's an absurdity that does new people any favours let alone the environmental cost.

More of an issue for the touristy villages - I've been thinking about the occupations of people I know here and most are very local - there are a lot of pensioners, some people working in the village, several people I know who work from home, the local agricultural folk and a lot work in neighbouring towns (which is probably less distance than people working on other side of the city they live in) . So no.. not much of people working vast distances from where they live. I guess there must be some.

There is always the issue of locals being unable to afford to buy here - this is a Devon and Cornwall wide issue.. but I think mostly caused by holiday makers, second homes, and older people moving to the area to retire. The last one is a big issue and a huge weight on social care.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 12:07 pm Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

...In some there is no public transport. One village near us where there is a first school lost its bus some years ago, so as the catchment area is large car is the only solution...

yes, public transport is minimal here - and under pressure at that. If you want fewer cars on the road, improve public transport.

sgt.colon

Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 7380
Location: Just south of north.

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 1:20 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

If you want fewer cars on the road, improve public transport.

Well if I remember rightly, Labour increased taxes on petrol and diesel back in the 00's to improve public transport. Another fail maybe?

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 1:23 pm Post subject:

sgt.colon wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

If you want fewer cars on the road, improve public transport.

Well if I remember rightly, Labour increased taxes on petrol and diesel back in the 00's to improve public transport. Another fail maybe?

I think, after 12 years of Tory rule, you can't blame much on the opposition

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45515
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 2:24 pm Post subject:
integrated public transport that works and is affordable does not seem too difficult in many European countries even big field or badlands USA have school buses and the usps+(a bit like the wilds of scotland used to be and maybe still are) the mail coach is a splendid 18th century invention

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8615
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 23 6:57 pm Post subject:

sgt.colon wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

If you want fewer cars on the road, improve public transport.

Well if I remember rightly, Labour increased taxes on petrol and diesel back in the 00's to improve public transport. Another fail maybe?

When Lab got in in Sheffield council. Years ago...they halved public transport fares...and usage more than doubled, so that they had to put more routes and buses on. The Cons got back in....reversed the fares change...and usage went down, of course...then they got privatised...and the rest is history

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