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Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9510
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 23 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mistress Rose wrote:

If we are looking at small, cheap commuter cars, most people will want something larger for longer distances or carrying more as well. Will reduce emissions, but not road miles or number of cars owned. Possibly one compromise size car would be better rather than one for each job.


Guess it depends how many passengers. But I run a fiat 500, and we nip about the place in it, but have also used it for holidays - for the two adults, we can comfortably get our belongings in the back. And it is a comfortable ride. When i change it, I will probably look at getting the electric version (but I cannot afford that at this time.)

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27814
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 23 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:

re range, if it can do 200 miles between charges it will be fine for most uk roadmiles, they already exist in the reasonably priced category, they aint made in the uk nor will they be


I think 200 is a bit low TBH. I have found myself taking a remarkable number of 75 miles there 75 miles back trips and 200 would lead to range anxiety.
I think a lot of EV makes are now at the 250 mark which is much more acceptable and approaches or exceeds the kind of distance people tend to want to drive at a stretch.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43783
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 23 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

250 is fine by me

are they being piled high and sold cheap while the infrastructure is coming online, or is fossil fuel and no consumer funds to adapt to leccy still favoured in the uk?

oh....

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6408
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 23 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Big claim being made by Prieto which says their new batteries charge from zero to 100% in 3 minutes.
Scrutiny will be important, but if they can deliver that changes everything

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27814
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 23 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Slim wrote:
Big claim being made by Prieto which says their new batteries charge from zero to 100% in 3 minutes.
Scrutiny will be important, but if they can deliver that changes everything


https://prieto.com/charging/

Amazing claim, not so amazing web site and it fails totally on the key question.

3 mins for 50kwh needs way beyond any charge out there.

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4498
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 23 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Neighbour of mine an agricultural business has had a new EV delivered,Ford Mustang ,apparently with a charge range of 270 miles according to the mechanic,£66,000.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43783
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 23 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

jema wrote:
Slim wrote:
Big claim being made by Prieto which says their new batteries charge from zero to 100% in 3 minutes.
Scrutiny will be important, but if they can deliver that changes everything


https://prieto.com/charging/

Amazing claim, not so amazing web site and it fails totally on the key question.

3 mins for 50kwh needs way beyond any charge out there.


that needs a very fat wire, i could get the tables but very fat is accurate enough
it might put the lights out for a block if you attached it to a domestic supply

put another way 50kwh would shift a tube train about ten miles, they have very fat wires and a dedicated supply

are we sure they have the numbers right?

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27814
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 23 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:


are we sure they have the numbers right?


Indeed, and when you have to ask that question there are issues of credibility.
There has been an EV scam that took in ICE companies.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43783
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 23 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

unless these things work at very high voltage, to shift that much energy at battery voltages in that amount of time would need a wire and transformer charger that would be a bit like this

Ty Gwyn



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4498
Location: Lampeter
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 23 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

The car i mentioned above is 800 volts

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43783
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 23 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

i could do the maths, but at 800v dc as a battery input that much energy in 3 mins is going to need a very big wire and impressive control gear to get 800v from anything that is not grid fed at a higher voltage with a set of big wires or is a stand alone system

the wire from the charger to the unit is going to be big to shift that much energy in 3 mins, so "roboplug" needs including as manual plugging in would be beyond most folk even if they like that sort of thing

that much energy in an hour would be far easier on the infrastructure

a motorway services with a herd of those charging would need its own nuke or it would have to trickle charge its batteries and use that energy in car charging bursts at peak times

trying to get that much energy, that fast, from 240v domestic feed might be funny but it would not end well

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43783
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 23 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

having thought about that, the grid infrastructure is not ideal for charging batteries

ac/dc , phases voltages etc

dc really needs to be local dc for local people as it does not travel well

to make this sort of thing work best, local harvest and storage of dc is the least energy losses between harvest and making the wheels go round

i wonder if these things could be made to discharge as fast as they claim they can be charged

rather than "fill up" as fast as petrol, fill up in a relaxed manner with low cost leccy

for the battery from above if the capacity is correct it sounds good, the infrastructure to fill it in 3 mins would be daft complicated even if it could eat that fast

feed one is possible, feed a small herd at brunchtime in heston services umm

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27814
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 23 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Presumably if it was 3 minutes, it would be less cars needing to charge at anyone time which would balance things out.
Doesn't alter the other points though.

NorthernMonkeyGirl



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4510
Location: Peeping over your shoulder
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 23 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Ty Gwyn wrote:
Neighbour of mine an agricultural business has had a new EV delivered,Ford Mustang ,apparently with a charge range of 270 miles according to the mechanic,£66,000.


Knock a zero off and we're talking!
Though diesel workhorses in that price range are also getting scarce.
There were conversion-to-EV kits at some point? But I don't have the tech knowledge or facilities, and I bet the insurance company would have none of it/

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 43783
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 23 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

conversion is rather like electrifying the old victorian mangle with a huge motor and no engineering guard on the drive and gearing while it does continuous running with no feed for hands near wet cloth guards either

it can be done but.....

as for taking an old ice icon and making a leccy version
make a good leccy one based on now

there is a market for workhorse ute, someone will see it and supply it

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