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NorthernMonkeyGirl



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4540
Location: Peeping over your shoulder
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 23 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:
conversion is rather like electrifying the old victorian mangle with a huge motor and no engineering guard on the drive and gearing while it does continuous running with no feed for hands near wet cloth guards either



"Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6468
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 23 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I certainly wouldn't trust this company blindly.
but.... The 800v architecture of an Ioniq 5 already allows for fast charging to go from 10 to 80% in less than 18 minutes, at a 350kw charger.

these rapid chargers are, I think, essentially just giant capacitors, which allows them to discharge rapidly without bkacking out the entire neighborhood. they still require a robust hookup. I believe a lot of work has gone into active cooling of all components (including charging cable)

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15101

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 23 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I hope someone produces a workhorse ute soon. We had to get the intermediate age when we had to replace one of our trucks, and even that is a bit high. The new ones are ridiculous; too high to reach into the back and more Chelsea tractor than ute.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 23 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

cooling the wires and lump does seem like a good idea, the wire from charger to car is going to be fat

as you say, even if a charger can "slow" store and fast discharge it will need a big supply to recharge the charger's internal "stores" rapidly enough to serve vehicles like a fuel pump does

it still comes down to shifting energy in the right form fast enough, both in and out of the charger unit/

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27931
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 23 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Slim wrote:
I certainly wouldn't trust this company blindly.
but.... The 800v architecture of an Ioniq 5 already allows for fast charging to go from 10 to 80% in less than 18 minutes, at a 350kw charger.

these rapid chargers are, I think, essentially just giant capacitors, which allows them to discharge rapidly without bkacking out the entire neighborhood. they still require a robust hookup. I believe a lot of work has gone into active cooling of all components (including charging cable)


I'm still optimistic that we will see an absolute rash of cheap utility vehicles.
We will essentially see kit cars.
You will have the essential "skateboard" in various sizes.
Then cabin and load bed options.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45166
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 23 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Mistress Rose wrote:
I hope someone produces a workhorse ute soon. We had to get the intermediate age when we had to replace one of our trucks, and even that is a bit high. The new ones are ridiculous; too high to reach into the back and more Chelsea tractor than ute.


This one here (but super pricey):

https://www.munro-ev.com/

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 23 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:
dpack wrote:
conversion is rather like electrifying the old victorian mangle with a huge motor and no engineering guard on the drive and gearing while it does continuous running with no feed for hands near wet cloth guards either



"Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD"


aside,
growing up playing with that definitely helped when the electricians started the industrial card i was under with a spanner and three thicknesses of rizlas to get it adjusted
after that i kept the isolator keys

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 23 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tahir wrote:
Mistress Rose wrote:
I hope someone produces a workhorse ute soon. We had to get the intermediate age when we had to replace one of our trucks, and even that is a bit high. The new ones are ridiculous; too high to reach into the back and more Chelsea tractor than ute.


This one here (but super pricey):

https://www.munro-ev.com/


ok in mud perhaps, first decent rock will have the rear diff.

as a bloke who breaks kit until i find kit that does not break, that thing looks a bit fragile underneath, for "off road" or "ute" it looks more fetish than effective

the top bit looks kinetic resistant it probably isn't, below looks like it will break or tangle

when somebody does think about it properly, the first leccy ute icon will join the honda C90, the cossack and mk1 landy and others in the hall of fame

it needs to work in a variety of capacities, it needs to be strong or easily mended, it needs to be affordable and to have sufficient battery charge and kinetic power for ute use

lawnmower to the football field maybe, haul a trailer from a field to market etc maybe, off road if it is not too challenging, off grid and challenging, get a ford fiesta, a hilux or a make a madmax until folk work out how it can be done leccy style

a ute needs to do anything, and to do some things well when required with a few tweaks

i did not look at the price, only the design





i may be wrong but striking a pointy rock is often destructive unless the running gear has a decent "breastplate"

the long wheelbase has carry capacity but combined with "low riding" it may struggle in soft stuff or over randomly placed large rocks

wide can be an issue with utes, that thing might be interesting between the green banks of Kernow or between trees even without a trailer

for day to day chainsaws to the woods on a decent forestry track or a few pigs to market in a trailer and a visit to the ag suppliers and bun shop before home again it might be ok

it does not look ideal for "road trip" either

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 23 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

fuel cell not battery but that seems to have been tried with the sort of criteria i was thinking of for "off road" which a ute needs to be able to cope with

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6468
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 23 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Don't need a rear differential if each wheel has it's own integrated motor. That's one of the approaches being considered... Frees up the rest of the vehicle to be whatever you want it to be, so long as you have somewhere to stash batteries.

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27931
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 23 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Slim wrote:
Don't need a rear differential if each wheel has it's own integrated motor. That's one of the approaches being considered... Frees up the rest of the vehicle to be whatever you want it to be, so long as you have somewhere to stash batteries.


That's a good point and I think illustrates again how EVs can break the design mould.

It's all moving very fast, yesterday I saw a page which looked very interesting graphically illustrating the pros and cons of different battery chemistries.

Two seconds later I realised that two very real and game changing chemistries were missing, let alone the more vapourware possibilities.

I'd hate to have to be signing contracts to buy batteries right now.
I'd guess Teslas and BYD are less vulnerable, but other ICE makers could be easily sunk by backing the wrong horse.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15101

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 23 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

That looks a bit like an old Land Rover, but all the drawbacks you say Dpack. We need one with an open back like a Hilux, old Ford Ranger or similar, which is what we have at present as long as we can keep it going. Ideally not wider than a car to go through customers gateways, and robust and stable enough to go along bad tracks.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 23 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

i assumed many evs have a motor at each corner, the good ones often have, that is why i was a bit surprised at the rear diff on that one

for a ute that can do off road 4 or more wheel drive is essential

motors are good for torque at whatever speed and a HP of motor bolted to a wheel is more effective than a HP of ice engine that has to be transferred via a massive drive of cogs and turning things

hybrid might be a ute option that works now, but very soon battery and motor tech should make an all electric ute plausible and probably very effective

Slim



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6468
Location: New England (In the US of A)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 23 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Ford had more electrified pickups in the works. Many are expecting at least a full EV of the newer Maverick and maybe something smaller than that as well

NorthernMonkeyGirl



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4540
Location: Peeping over your shoulder
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 23 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

jema wrote:
Slim wrote:
Don't need a rear differential if each wheel has it's own integrated motor. That's one of the approaches being considered... Frees up the rest of the vehicle to be whatever you want it to be, so long as you have somewhere to stash batteries.


That's a good point and I think illustrates again how EVs can break the design mould.

It's all moving very fast, yesterday I saw a page which looked very interesting graphically illustrating the pros and cons of different battery chemistries.

Two seconds later I realised that two very real and game changing chemistries were missing, let alone the more vapourware possibilities.

I'd hate to have to be signing contracts to buy batteries right now.
I'd guess Teslas and BYD are less vulnerable, but other ICE makers could be easily sunk by backing the wrong horse.


There is hope, perhaps I can keep my current one limping along until these exist... Trouble is, a modest affordable workhorse isn't sexy enough to attract investment and probably won't bring massive profits.
The newer Rangers etc wouldn't fit down the lanes I need to, never mind manouevring (I can't spell that), let alone on my suburban driveway!
I'd probably be a light user by most standards, but when I do need to tow then we're taking a full load a few hours on rough roads.

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