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Long range EVs
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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 23 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

like for like compared to ice that sort of price to the buyer after "discounts" is quite an incentive

for anyone who has capacity for home or community cheap leccy harvest it would be a very good deal over a few years of not buying petrol(even at usa petrol prices, here it would be twice as good on the fuel term of the equation)

those chinese small family car ones looked perfect for many folks needs, if tesla can compete on price and quality with them it adds incentives for development of even better and more economical ones

can my one do the mars rover thing of i tell it where to go and it will go there?

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 23 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

these look like a legacy range

not good performance specs for the prices and the battery tech seems way off current trends

ask a rellie or chum to buy a chinese one and get it put on a boat would be better for the price

" moving box" "sample" "no value" might cover the customs details

there are many merits to ancient languages and modern forms

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 23 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

fact check

in other news Porsche have just displayed a bonkers bev supercar

to win over the petrolhead "fun" car folk with that sort of thing might help convince the person in a reasonably priced car that leccy works

as it is le mans soon, how about 24 hr race petrol vs leccy

indy 500 would be another huge propaganda boost

make em work, pile em high, sell them affordably does need a little help with hearts and minds that would be better with batteries

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27931
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 23 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It's actually been a few months since I have seen a "batteries haven't got better, only bigger" post, but that is probably just luck.
It's mildly mad, that there are so many potential succeeders to the mantle of best battery for an EV.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 23 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

with only 2 data points and based on bike tech

first to second gen had dramatic improvements from useful, to useful and easy

range/power has more than trebled for the same size/mass of battery, the drive motor, control gear and mechanics are far better

having allowed for different styles of bike, somewhere around a 3 fold improvement in the tech and capacities is about right for a 12 yr generational gap

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27931
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 23 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

dpack wrote:

having allowed for different styles of bike, somewhere around a 3 fold improvement in the tech and capacities is about right for a 12 yr generational gap


Whilst I don't think the improvement is so marked in EVs, I find it remarkable that 2014 Teslas are still 20K.
I'm not saying I wouldn't love one, but the techy in me wants tech that isn't 10 years out of date in any field, let alone one that's been developing fast.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15101

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 23 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

You will be lucky. Most things take nearly that long to go from development to full production phase. In fast moving technology most things that are in production are out of date.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45166
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 23 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

This looks pretty long range, and from a company that has been at the forefront of anti EV disinformation:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/toyota-solid-state-ev-due-2027-745-miles-range

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 23 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

sometimes they get things right

if this is more than a shiny image and can have that sort of performance, ie better than petrol, it might convince a few more petrol heads to get a reasonably priced leccy car that is better and cheaper than the ice ones

propaganda by deed

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 23 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

ps if they do make it work i want a go

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27931
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 23 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1139925_toyota-touts-745-mile-range-10-minute-charge-for-solid-state-battery?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3F_EYR1JeGRddsKXYTGm5pXi07q5ZtuZ-lWnOcGN2DgY4BFYRyc3mXL8M

another take on Tahir's link.

The problem is Toyota has got form on this

What is the press release really saying? It's really saying don't buy an EV now, we have a much better EV for you, but it is some years away.

It is far from the first time they have claimed to have solid-state just around the corner.
fool me once....

What's the reality and the point anyway? a battery is a constant dead weight.
Round here we have queues of Amazon delivery vans at pumps, because I expect they only half fill those vans with diesel for fuel economy.

There is a range at which for most people it becomes grotesquely stupid to weigh your car down with a massive battery however dense that battery is, and there are some real chemical limits on that.

What is that range? debatable, but brings me back to the idea of multiple batteries and leaving a few at home or EV station most of the time.

Seriously though how inconvenienced would 350 miles range leave 99% of people 99.5% of the time?

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45166
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 23 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

There's very few people for whom range is a real issue. The biggest announcement this week is a new sodium ion JV by BYD this is a cheaper tech which they'll ne using for smaller cars

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 27931
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 23 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Sodium highlights oddly a true elephant in the room with EVs.
The idiots talk about cars for the elite only. The reverse is true.
EVs with cheap sodium batteries will be even cheaper than EVs with cheap lithium batteries.
So my temptation to get a van for vanny things will increase.
We will easily end with more vehicles built, more congestion etc.
EVs are only a solution if there are other traffic solutions, public transport and for that matter incentives to rent vehicles.

Nicky cigreen



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9613
Location: Devon, uk
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 23 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

there was a feature on radio 4 more or less program on EVs - interesting (14 June, about 10 mins in if you want to check it out) taking apart claims that bridges wont cope with the heavier EVs - lorries are clearly heavier.. but that there might be problems with older car parks designed for lighter vehicles.

They said that a corsa, which is a small car is 45% heavier in EV form - I was surprised it was that much more.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44467
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 23 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

ice legacy makers have big presses and "cheap" steel

if they had nice ovens and "cheaper" composites it would more than compensate for the wt of a battery minus the engine and gearbox

much of the wt of modern ice cars is attempting to comply with and brag about "safety standards" while using "cheap"steel and late
19thC production methods (granted they have robots rather than flat caps but the press it, bolt it, weld it still features)

the Chinese startup with bev folk seem to be using composites for most of the "box"

well-chosen and arranged composites are lighter and stronger than steel

from first principles to design, to factory and product vs legacy factory+ bandwagon design based on ice experience and facilities etc and "our modern"product might be a rather one-sided contest

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