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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45216
Location: yes
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 24 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

use low temp waste heat to add couple of degrees C to the domestic hot water?

my homemade sound and video pooter made a kw of fan heater unnecessary

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28073
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 24 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/06/used-electric-cars-battery-lords-evs

The idea that used EVs are £40,000 is quite absurd.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45216
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 24 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

yep, the rear guard of fossil has plenty of cash for propaganda

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45336
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 24 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Really good article:

https://orionmagazine.org/article/beyond-hope/

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45216
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 24 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

mushashi was more succinct, "a dead man can achieve anything"

walking away grinning is a bonus, but it can get in the way of the mission if it takes precedent over success

as far as environmental issues, a few small significant wins has killed a few of my comrades, after the first the rest accepted the risks were real, that does not make it easier to accept the necessity of doing it whenever and however you think best

re the philosophy of hope and despair, if i win known life wins, if i lose
something will be wondering about the meaning of the fossil record of the 6th extinction eventually, it might be smart enough to learn from it

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28073
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 24 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

tahir wrote:
Really good article:

https://orionmagazine.org/article/beyond-hope/



It has often struck me that the ultra rich are in the "just party" camp.
A wild orgy at the end of the world. Billionaires know that unless we do get to the literal "eat the rich" stage that they are insulated from climate change.
In fact the wild disparities of income isolates them from all reality.
There are so many CEOs who have in effect no economic skin in the game, if their decisions destroy companies they can walk away laughing.
If their decisions destroy the environment, they can retreat to their bunkers.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15449

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 24 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Surely there are practical things we can do too. Your tree planting Tahir and Dpack, our woodland management, others smallholdings and gardens. These are all practical things that help in small ways, and many small ways add up. Education is also a way of converting others.

I don't advocate giving up on pushing for more equality, reduction of pollution and all the other things, but there are ways and means, and searching for the most effective way rather than high profile is often best. I am certainly not complacent, but over the years I have noticed some definite signs of improvement like the development, however slowly, of renewable energy.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45336
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 24 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It's definitelys tough to stay positive. Huge mudslides in California, dozens killed in wildfires in Chile...

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45216
Location: yes
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 24 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

1.5C for over a year, 425.6ppm CO2

details matter as well if the town is on fire or under the hillside or in the sea or is in a dust bowl

meanwhile corporate psychopaths sell the destruction of whatever profits or amuses them

being positive can be small and possibly pointless things like planting long term trees or protecting small and special places, but i do not mistake it for optimism, that the l term of the drake equation has quite a large value for humans(and is a bit rough on the rest of the wildlife) is a given considering the observations

primate specific biowar from space is my recommendation to the galactic council, remove the primates from the biosphere and things will settle back to normal planetary changes

a chat about putting the spanners down if a few hundred years too late

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28073
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 24 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

When destruction stops recovery begins, so Tuna have made a come back.
The ozone layer isn't doing badly.
But these are almost happenstance, there was no real need for CFCs and fishing yourself out of business does kind of force you to stop fishing a bit and at least think about doing something.
But fossil fuels are raking in record profits and our governments are basically in their pockets.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15449

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 24 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Having used CFCs, they were very important at the time. They took over from things like carbon tetrachloride and other more dangerous chemicals. At the time they were thought to be safe, but it was found they had other unknown effects. Alternatives have now been found, and that is the way we must go for other damaging or polluting chemicals and technologies.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45216
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 24 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

its a gas

considering the development curve of batteries/charger systems and the potential for battery swaps for big vehicles trying to add H2 as a fuel seems pointless

not green unless green and still inefficient, hard to source in many places, dangeroos to store, transport, work on, or crash with. it not only diffuses through solids, but also it alters many of them in ways that cause failures

i decided against a hydrolysis H2/O/mek/air torch for small metal as i have used hydrogen before and 6 months was more than enough tension for a lifetime
ace wee bit of kit but a lot of points of weakness that can get far too exciting

for cars it seems a very bad idea and plausibly a distraction by those with plenty of grey and blue hydrogen(and petrol)

green leccy, battery, motor seems to be the best way forward

Last edited by dpack on Thu Feb 15, 24 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total

jema
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28073
Location: escaped from Swindon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 24 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Hydrogen will always have far more inefficiency in the process that simply putting electricity into a battery and using it.
It's keeps going as I'm sure it gets tax breaks, it's useful FUD against EVs and it might have some aviation/HGV applications.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45216
Location: yes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 24 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

my concern is not primarily about efficiency but about safety and infrastructure

in bulk H2 is either very cold or at high pressure, neither are ideal even with good kit and expert personnel sometimes things go wrong, from a huge range of go wrongs most are quite bad and some are very bad

knowing how shabby many vehicles are in real world use, the idea of some having H2 fuel onboard worries me, an underground car park would be a great venue for a leak, a domestic garage might be a bit small for a good bang, but the blowtorch effect might get noticed

an in use failure of a fuel line or similar might be too exciting for most

iirc it was 30000 lt of liquified that escaped from the plant where i worked, a broken bursting disc happens on the receiver, the noise is too much to get near enough to shut the relevant valves, 5 mins panic, but it vented to atmosphere without burning and the deafness was a small price for not being blown up
that was shortly before i worked there and well remembered by those who were there at the time, my cylinders were a bit smaller but would take out an office block no prob

having worked with, and played with, loads of dangeroos things H2 is high on my list of "find another way" or if H2 is involved the public should not be, even the skilled with the best kit have problems with the stuff

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15449

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 24 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I think in vehicles the hydrogen is absorbed onto some medium, so does not go around as liquid hydrogen. I agree it is very explosive/flammable, and when it burns the flame is virtually invisible, which can be tricky (burnt little finger from hydrogen flame on ball wire bonder) was a problem I had for a while. It also will penetrate a lot of 'gas tight' seals, so very well welded pipework is needed to transport it. The plus side is it tends to escape upwards, not downwards like petrol vapour, so is less likely to pool and cause a ground fire.

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