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Buying your first gun...
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vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 9:11 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote    

Cathryn wrote:
Does that mean that in several months/years time threads like
this one become intelligible?


Yes, sorry they can get a bit techie. BB's article is an excellent guide especially the bit about not taking what someone else says as verbatim. The only advice I'll offer is get out there and shoot, beg or borrow your gun and shooting ground, try as many as you can and you'll soon feel what is right for you in terms of comfort, needs, performance and price.

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19830
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Ermm so I need to go and get us both a shot gun certificate tomorrow? As opposed to a firearms certificate? Sorry, Brownbear told me only a few hours ago but I cannot remember having now read the article.

whitelegg1



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 409
Location: Woodford Green
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

vegplot wrote:
Cathryn wrote:
Does that mean that in several months/years time threads like
this one become intelligible?


Yes, sorry they can get a bit techie. BB's article is an excellent guide especially the bit about not taking what someone else says as verbatim. The only advice I'll offer is get out there and shoot, beg or borrow your gun and shooting ground, try as many as you can and you'll soon feel what is right for you in terms of comfort, needs, performance and price.


Be careful about using a FIREARM that is not yours.
There are some very grey rules about using a shotgun or firearm that is not yours, with regards to supervision or not, whether or not it needs to be on your licence, in fact whether or not you need a licence.
If in doubt try to find someone who knows.
The BASC are a good source of information, and members can call them up and ask advice on this sort of issue.
Unfortunately, when push comes to shove, the opinion that matters will probably be a beat P.C. who doesn't know gun from gum! After a doo-gooder reports the sniper/poacher and the guys swoop down in the helicopter with the Heckler & Kochs!! It does happen, although thankfully rare!

If I can be of help, drop me a line.

If your thinking of an air rifle, the regulations are less stringent, but there are still some lines to toe....


Pete

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Cathryn wrote:
Ermm so I need to go and get us both a shot gun certificate tomorrow? As opposed to a firearms certificate? Sorry, Brownbear told me only a few hours ago but I cannot remember having now read the article.


If you want to shoot shotgun you'll need a shotgun certifcate. You apply for these in much the same way as a firearms certifcate and can obtain the form from your local police station. You'll need to get a gun cabinet installed as well.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

whitelegg1 wrote:
vegplot wrote:
Cathryn wrote:
Does that mean that in several months/years time threads like
this one become intelligible?


Yes, sorry they can get a bit techie. BB's article is an excellent guide especially the bit about not taking what someone else says as verbatim. The only advice I'll offer is get out there and shoot, beg or borrow your gun and shooting ground, try as many as you can and you'll soon feel what is right for you in terms of comfort, needs, performance and price.


Be careful about using a FIREARM that is not yours.
There are some very grey rules about using a shotgun or firearm that is not yours, with regards to supervision or not, whether or not it needs to be on your licence, in fact whether or not you need a licence.
If in doubt try to find someone who knows.
The BASC are a good source of information, and members can call them up and ask advice on this sort of issue.
Unfortunately, when push comes to shove, the opinion that matters will probably be a beat P.C. who doesn't know gun from gum! After a doo-gooder reports the sniper/poacher and the guys swoop down in the helicopter with the Heckler & Kochs!! It does happen, although thankfully rare!

If I can be of help, drop me a line.

If your thinking of an air rifle, the regulations are less stringent, but there are still some lines to toe....


Pete


A careless use of words. My apologies.

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19830
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Thank you vegplot.

whitelegg1



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 409
Location: Woodford Green
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

No apologies necessary.

Just making sure that no members get themselves into hot water

I have taken a keen interest in things shooting over the last year or so.....to the detriment of the Whitelegg Fruit & Veg patch!!! Much to Whitelegg2 disgust, as she has just pointed out to me

Pete

Jonnyboy



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23924
Location: under some rain.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 08 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

sean wrote:
Yep. They're talking specifics. This article is a more general introduction to the subject.


And a very excellent introduction it is too.

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 08 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

On the topic of borrowing a gun, with a shotgun, if you have no certificate you can use the gun of another in their presence on land where you have permission to shoot. I didn't go into details of multiple gun or gun type ownership as it's about just getting started. Borrowing firearms just isn't worth the hassle TBH. Issues of 'closed' and 'open' certificates, is one the landowner or the landowner's 'agent' etc.

In Cathryn's case, if Lauren has a shotgun certificate, she could purchase what shotguns she wishes (up to the level of storage given by the person who inspects the storage (the Firearms Enquiry Officer or FEO)), and Cathryn could use these in Lauren's presence and with her permission, but Lauren would have to be the only one with the keys to the cabinet. If you both had certificates then you could both have the keys, but all guns in the cabinet would have to be registered to you both.

If Rifles were involved as well, it's more complicated. If one of you had, say, a .17HMR for bunnies, then only that person could have access to it, which in effect means two cabinets. If you both had a Firearms Certificate (FAC), then you could both have the rifle on your tickets and both have keys. When only one person has access the law says that only the certificate holder must know where the keys are.

It may be possible to have a shared cabinet - if only one person had access to the place where the rifle's bolt and ammunition were stired, but I don't think they'd like it. It's less fuss in the end, in those circs, to have two cabinets. That's what we do at home - I ahve the keys to the ammo safe and the cabinet with the rifles and the FAC shotgun, and both of us have the keys to another cabinet with the three 'normal' shotguns.

kevin.vinke



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1304
Location: Niedersachsen, Germany
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 08 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Excellent article very usefull thanks

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19830
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 08 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

So, in conclusion it would be worth going for a firearms certificate for us both... In that it can take forever to get them in some cases and it is likely that we will want to shoot rabbits (or Loren will, I am not shooting at anything until I have had many more lessons). And we might as well go for the full certificate at the beginning? Not at all sure where I could fit two gun cabinets in this tiny rented cottage. (Do they come in pastel shades? )

An added twist being that we don't always live together and I am likely to want to use any gun at times when she isn't there.

Whose daft idea was it to let Loren have ago at shooting...

Thank you, it is a great article and your advice BB is invaluable.

Brownbear



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14929
Location: South West
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 08 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

In Lauren and Cathryn's case, it would probably, if you definitely want a rifle as well, be better to apply for what is called 'co-terminous' certificates, when you can save ten or twenty quid by getting the firearms and shotgun certs at the same time. As you have land, that isn't an issue, so I suggest that you both apply at the same time for co-terminous shotgun/firearms. Get a cabinet with a lockable top that is large enough to accommodate one rifle and several shotguns (I can get them for you at a reduced price from my wholesaler).

It might also be a good idea to get a bit of training - the chap who runs my rifle club does shooting training for the Forestry Commission and issues certificates of training which the police accept. You could also put me down as a 'mentor' who will advise you on such matters.

If you're really serious about having a rifle, I'd suggest you both popped down for a day or so, and I could arrange some professional coaching and certification, and then take you shooting on some land I control bunnies on.

KILLITnGRILLIT



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 894
Location: Looking at a screen in the front room
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 08 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nice one BB, can I just add that the .243 ruling for deer isn`t totally correct as here in Scotland we can and do use .22 CENTREFIRE calibres for Roe and I believe CWD & Munties can be shot with similar calibres but as yet the police are playing catch up with the terms for these deer and hopefully they will be sorted soon.

vegplot



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21297
Location: Ynys Môn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 08 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

As BB has stated previously it's worth visiting the BASC site (http://www.basc.org.uk/) if you are doing any field shooting.

I highly recommend becoming a member as not only to do get access to a mine of information and advice but also you receive insurance cover. BASC also lobby legislators and help protect our sport and environment.

Cathryn



Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 19830
Location: Ceredigion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 08 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Brownbear wrote:
In Lauren and Cathryn's case, it would probably, if you definitely want a rifle as well, be better to apply for what is called 'co-terminous' certificates, when you can save ten or twenty quid by getting the firearms and shotgun certs at the same time. As you have land, that isn't an issue, so I suggest that you both apply at the same time for co-terminous shotgun/firearms. Get a cabinet with a lockable top that is large enough to accommodate one rifle and several shotguns (I can get them for you at a reduced price from my wholesaler).

It might also be a good idea to get a bit of training - the chap who runs my rifle club does shooting training for the Forestry Commission and issues certificates of training which the police accept. You could also put me down as a 'mentor' who will advise you on such matters.

If you're really serious about having a rifle, I'd suggest you both popped down for a day or so, and I could arrange some professional coaching and certification, and then take you shooting on some land I control bunnies on.


Thank you (sorry I feel I am hijacking the thread a bit). I need to think about this some more but I know Loren definitely wants to do more and I want to encourage this so will learn at the same time. (She always enjoyed pistol shooting even in the depths of winter at the freezing cold gun club that we used.) We will definitely get a lot more local training.

(And we'll come and visit. )

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